Adding Air Leveling

[Edward Buker]

 I am quite happy with the over the road air leveling system that was originally put in these coaches (mine is a 2002 Marquis non tag) It seems to have fairly high flow leveling valves and uses a lot of air while traveling over the road. In doing so, in my opinion, it does a good job with ride and leveling the coach, while keeping the system relatively simple as air leveling systems go.

I do not think the amount of change, cost, and complexity that would be added to go to an HWH active air system would provide enough benefit to be worthwhile and it is very expensive at 7K+. It is a very complex system involving new valves, air lines, speed sensors, steering angle sensors, computers etc.

What I did, is talk with HWH about adding air leveling of a more traditional type to this coach. What they would do is remove the hydraulic rams over the axle and cap the lines (they could also at your request leave that system in place but were concerned about someone activating both systems at the same time which could cause a problem) and install all the necessary component/system changes to have traditional air leveling put in place. This would also enable raising the coach or the clearance at one axle using a manual button if you had a temporary ground clearance issue that you wanted to overcome at low speed, like a steep driveway entrance.

I was quoted $4600 to do that job and they would want the coach for 5 days. I am not ready to do this this just yet, but for a number of us that still have the hydraulic leveling systems I was wondering how many might be interested in this change over. One day we will have a leveling system fail and be faced with the inability to get parts or repairs with these SMC custom systems. Thay are less than optimum in there operation as leveling systems go. My thought is if we had 4 or 5 or more coaches maybe HWH would consider a BAC pricing plan for a group of $4000 each and we could have a mini rally next spring in Iowa. I have no idea if they would entertain this but it would seem plausible with enough business as a group. Not looking for any commitement, just how many would be interested at a 4K price.

Let me know if there is any interest in this proposal. The good thing is HWH engineering and factory installs are top notch and from then on service, tech support, and parts availability around the country should be possible. At times that is worth its weight in gold...

Later Ed

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

Ed, I have often wondered the same thing. That is, what to do if and when a failure occured. My thought was to (when the failure happened) contact HWH or some other hydraulic manufacturer to see if using existing lines and rams could still be used. That way the only upgrade and cost would be a new hydraulic pump, manifold and switching. Of coarse the new system would have to have provisions to operate the front slide or stand alone and keep the old system also, for the operation of the slide. I'm not even opposed to having four seperate switches to run the system manually like my old 98 Monterey. Of coarse in a manual mode you would have to run the rams in pairs once they were bottomed so as not to twist the chassis and pop the windshield out or crack it. Whats your thought on that?
Marty

[Jerry and Kay Hudson]

Ed,

And I am one of the ones that have had this system fail....twice. The first time we had an extended warranty take care of it but now no extended warranty and no one in the south that knows how to work on it. Sure, We can carry it to a shop and they can spend several hundred dollars trying to figure it out and then tell me....opps we can not fix it

Count me in as this is the coach that we are going to have forever. If someone knows who can fix these systems, I will fly them to New Orleans and pay them to fix it but I can not handle the ones that will put the coach in the shop and let the clock run on it.

Thanks,
Jerry

[Karl Welhart]

I also have had concerns about this type of leveling system.  I have not had any problems with mine as of this date.  The company that made our system is; Quatra Manufactureing in Ohio, trade name "Big Foot" RV Leveing System.  Back in the early 2000's they would not talk to anyone about our system.  This was because of bad feallings between them and SMC.  However, I did see them at the last Tampa Super Show and the guy at the booth indicated they would consider repair/maintenance of these older MH systems.  Some of the controllers and level sensors are still used in their current product lines.  Perhaps, someone representing BAC could make contact with the management of Quatra and work out some kind of arrangement for technical/repair support.

[Edward Buker]

Marty, Jerry,

I touched on the subject of an alternate controller for the current system and they were not interested due to liability issues and picking up ownership of components that they did not engineer. The person I spoke with was well aware of this SMC system and they were familiar with retrofiting air leveling into our coaches that have these systems. He told me that they invented that ram to the axle concept but SMC evidently got wind of it and used it but would not go with HWH components. He said they bought cheap controllers that have had failure problems. Sounded like a bit of bad blood from that era.... HWH dropped the work on that leveling method when SMC brought it to market without them.

I think it would be wise to go with a main stream non customized system so that it can be maintained over the years by someone who does things right and will be in business. I think air leveling has enough advantages over our current hydraulic system to believe that is the way to go. I think it is a fair question by HWH to decide if you want the current rams removed. He indicated that in all but one install that is what they did. I indicated that a relay could be added to disable the hydraulic leveling control pad when the air leveling system was in use but he was not interested in touching/customizing anything that was part of the current coach system. I asked if they would leak check the current air leveling system and he said no, that system needed to be serviced by whoever handles those systems today. My net is that they control and manage the quality of their systems and installs by only installing and servicing just what they know and that is a good strategy for a business.

By the feedback I have read, it would be rare to see a negative comments about HWH and their work done at the factory location in Iowa.  That is the only location that they said they would use to install this system.

If anyone has had the HWH conversion to air leveling from the current hydraulic system done please comment on any pros and cons between the two systems and your experience.

Thanks Ed

[Joel Weiss]

I didn't realize that SMC jumped around with respect to its supplier for leveling systems.  Ours was made by RVA and I've gotten good phone support from them when I've called.  As long as I can get adequate tech and parts support I am in no hurry to change anything.

[Edward Buker]

Joel,

I think we are discussing a different system.... Ours is a proprietary SMC system where the hydraulic rams are located over an axle and do not touch the ground. This system has little support beyond BCS in Bend. My understanding is that parts for this system are very limited if available at all. I do not think any of the 2000 year coaches had this sytem. Maybe Gerald can chime in here as to which coaches and years had this sytem.

Later Ed

[Gerald Farris]

The SMC leveling system was used on the 2001 and 2002 coaches only.

Gerald

[Steve Cook]

As I recall that system was first used on the Solitare, then in 2001 it was put on the Marquis and Patriot. BCS was still the factory service center at that time and they removed just about every jack to put the new type on. The jacks would slip off the rear end housing and the coach would drop, rapidly, and in most cases puncture the inside rear tire. New jacks had a ring welded on and came down over a pad so it could not slip. If you are interested in an air ride sys. With air leveling and also hydrolic leveling just look at an early 1990s Marquis with HWH. HWH works great, some circuit board problems occure and HWH is very good about fixing, just send them box, they fix and send back.  Steve

[George Harwell]

Had air leveling installed on my '03 Monterey, and retained the hyd. jacks that extend to the ground.  HWH did the job in 2 days, and cost $4000 back in June of 2007.  Very happy with their work and works very well so far.  By the way, they didn't even mention anything about the hyd. jacks.

[Edward Buker]

George,

Thanks for sharing your insight on your air leveling conversion with HWH. Sounds like you have been a happy camper.

The only hydraulic system that HWH is interested in disabling is the SMC system that Gerald referred to that was used in the 2001 and 2002 SMC coaches. That system uses the over the wheel rams between the coach chassis frame and the axles which are used for the landing pads. The hydraulic rams that go to the ground are not involved in their concern. The person I spoke with seemed to imply that if both systems were active at one time that one system could damage the other and I am still pondering that one a bit.

If anyone has any reason that you would consider not disabling the SMC system during a conversion to air leveling please pass that info along to me in a post here.

Also, anyone else mildly interested in a conversion to an HWH air leveling sytem?

Later Ed

[MarcRodstein]

I too have 2003 Monterey and I would like to add air levelling as George Harwell did. So I guess you could include me on a group buy-in deal.

Marc Rodstein

[Mike Collins]

We had HWH put air leveling in our 2003 Patriot Thunder about 3 years ago and kept our hydraulic system (leveling to axles). I was thrilled with the way it worked. We could push the leveling button when we stopped at a rest area and were level within seconds. The air was not dumped as with our hydraulic system so it didn't take a lot of time and make a lot of noise when we wanted to leave a campground early in the morning. It also had more height range than our hydraulic system which was a plus as our coach was very low. Sometimes that meant we needed to use a step to reach the ground. HWH is a great company. The office and the techs were wonderful to work with.

We traded in our Patriot for a 2002 42' Marquis and had HWH put air leveling on this coach last summer, retaining the hydraulic system again. They had a lot of trouble with our tag axle. Probably wouldn't with a 40' coach. However ---  the system that they install now has been changed and the things that I loved about it no longer apply. We were told that the owner thought people preferred to be lower to the ground, so now the air is dumped before leveling. It takes longer to level and to retract, but it definitely is lower to the ground. Since I didn't care about that aspect, but really miss the things I loved with the original system, I would have preferred that they had informed us of the changes before we spent the money. It does take less time than the hydraulic and it is possible to manually level, so much of the air can be left in the system, but that makes leveling a bit more of a challenge. The result - Mike likes it. I am disappointed.

Mary

[Edward Buker]

Marc,

Thanks for your response. I will add you to a potential number when I talk to HWH and see if they will entertain this proposal.

Mary,

Thanks for your insight. That aspect of the air system and the changes they made I would not have known about. I can see your point and may have preferred the old methodolgy also. That issue would not prevent me from getting the new system butit is  good to know the pros and cons.  Thanks.

So far Ed, Jerry, and Marc.  Anyone else pondering making the change? At this stage, this is just for getting a quote.

Later Ed

[John Fearnow]

Ed....Please include me on the list as interested. We are currently at Lake Pleasant in Bothell where the sloped nature of many of the sites reminds one of the limitations of my leveling system.  the weather here is great for the ducks and geese, the population of which has appeared to increase from last year, but otherwise the wx is not good for much.

John Fearnow
2002 patriot-thunder