Electric Bay Questions

[Dick Simonis]

After making it to Idaho Falls without further drama I started to dig into the slide problems.  For some reason the front slide decided to operate after 4 days by pulling the switch and giggling wires.  Went out and got a new switch but that seems to easy so we'll see.   The read slide is intermittent and yesterday went out 3" and stopped... no in and no out.  Waited about 15 minutes than all was well.  This intermittent behavior has become normal and it's p@##ing me off to no end.

1)  The layout diagram for the bay (pic attached) shows one slide out relay and one slide out circuit breaker.  However, I have an extra relay with wires marked for slide..this relay is below the rest and horizontal (pic attached).  The blue relay looks like it's in the headlight circuit.  I'm suspecting the front slide was an option but the diagram wasn't updated.
2)  The circuit breaker is on the coach power bus which appear to be energized even with the ign switch on...base on the batter + lead going to that side.
3)  If that is true, that the two slide relays act to "lock-out" slides when the ign is on???

I'm thinking that I will go ahead and replace both slide relays as well as the circuit breaker in an effort to get rid of this intermittent problem.  In addition, I think I will also replace the bedroom slide relay that is behind the TV.

Do you guys think I'm on the right track with this approach??

One other thing, I'm looking for a good circuit tracer, anyone have some thoughts on this??

Thanks.

Dick

[Gerald Farris]

Dick,
I think that you are overcomplicating the problem, because 75% of the time the switch is the reason for a front slide failure. Also, the rear slide almost always fails because of either the switch or the slide motor brake. The way to fix the problem is to get a good DVOM (digital volt/ohm meter), and check the circuit to see where you are loosing power. If there is power to the rear slide motor and it does not work, the motor brake needs repair.

On the 2000 Thunder, the front slide was standard equipment, but the bedroom slide was optional.

Gerald  

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

If you find it is not the switch or the relays there is one other component that is known to fail. There is a large solenoid switch on the pump assembly that may become intermittent with poor internal contacts over time. You would have 12v on the small wires when you hit the slide switch but no 12v coming out of the larger studs going to the pump motor.

If you are in an intermittent state and you cannot move the slide you should be able to also jumper (connect) wires to each other from the back of the switch to test if the switch is intermittent if you do not have a meter.

Later Ed

[Joel Ashley]

I've used a Sperry model similar to this one for coax and other circuitry:     http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sperry-LAN-Tracker-Wire-Tracer-ET64220/202520187
You should be able to find it or versions of it by going through the BAC portal to Amazon as an alternative to Home Depot or Lowe's, etc.

I like it except for that there is a trick to using it I haven't always been able to get down pat - other wires in a bundle can bleed the signal so sometimes it's hard to tell which one is the true conductor.  You have to adjust its sensitivity, but it can still be touchy.  Others here may have alternative suggestions.  Otherwise, it has proven useful on several occasions trying to sort out and identify wires and cables.  It's critical, of course, to be sure the circuits you test are de-energized or you're liable to fry the unit.

Joel

Addendum:  found mine here when I checked a minute ago...      http://www.amazon.com/Sperry-Instruments-ET4220L-Tracker-Tracer/dp/B005Z0ZBFY/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1402189111&sr=1-2&keywords=Lan+Tracker+Wire+Tracer

[Dick Simonis]

Thanks for the replies.  The problems being intermittent complicate the troubleshooting efforts which is why I was thinking about just replacing all the little bits.

Ed, your comment about a larger solenoid back by the pump strikes a chord.  The problem only began after BCS had been working on my jack solenoids and I've long suspected that Steve disturbed something back there.  The wiring is a real rats nest with nothing in looms or made up neatly and it's tough to access.  I'll do my thing here in IF but baring resolution I may put it on them to neaten everything up and perhaps change said solenoid.

Joel, thanks for the info on the circuit tracer and I will look into it although the description suggests it designed with a different purpose in mind.

[Steve Huber]

Dick,
The rear slide problem is probably an intermittent connection in the slide circuitry. If not a relay, the connections to the switch, especially the pigtail that come off the switch and the spade connectors can be especialy problematic. I attached the block diagram of the rear slide in my Contessa. Your Pat is probably the same.
Good Luck, Steve

[Joel Ashley]

The description of the tracer I agree seems to relate to only other than electric power circuits, but if the circuit isn't live you can hook the base to a known wire and find it elsewhere by the signal sent through it, evidenced by the sensor's tone.

Joel

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

This solenoid should be one like this, 100amp or more rating if you prefer. It is not a fluid solenoid valve.

http://www.amazon.com/CONTINUOUS-SOLENOID-GOLF-CARTS-1114208/dp/B008R1T5IM

It handles the large pump current and your switch wiring controls this solenoid. My assumption is that your pump assembly has one of these as does mine but you would need to check it out to be sure.  I am not saying this is your problem just that it could be. Gerald's experience would say it is most likely the switch and I would certainly look there first.

Later Ed

[Dick Simonis]

Thanks for the comments.  I don't think my rear slide wiring is quite like the one Steve posted...no limit switches, but other wise should be similar.  I will pull the rear TV tomorrow, look at the wiring and replace the relay.  Since the switch is different from the front I need to find one first but should be able to replace it from the outside.

I'm going to leave cleaning up the wiring mess and possible solenoid to BCS.  I have no intention of digging into all those wires while on the road and possibly doing more harm than good.

Different question..while looking at the electrical bay layout I see relays for three different forms of braking:

1)  There is a relay for something called the ABS retarder.
2)  Another for and Endurance Brake
3)  An than the engine brake.

I know about the engine brake, what on earth are the others?

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

Your rear slide is electric and the limit switches are behind long threaded shafts with lock nuts on them under the bed. There are two. As the slide motor propels the slide in or out the power is cut by the momentary limit switches even if you hold down the rocker switch. These are adjustable so that the power is cut just before the motor safety clutch makes the loud noise on the in travel and the slide stops as it seals to the wall on the out travel. I have adjusted mine to just avoid the clutch loud thump which has to be an undue stress on the mechanicals.

As far as the brake relay labeling, that is really confusing nomenclature at best, and one could only guess.

Later Ed

[Steve Huber]

Dick,
Back to the wiring for a minute; not sure how the slide know when to stop w/o  limit switches?? Mine were mounted on the slide frame and were activated by adjustable stops (threaded shafts).

If your layout is  same. you should not have to pull the TV. The relay was mounted in the rear closet behind the TV Cabinet and there was enough slack in the wiring that I could pull it all out to access the spade connectors via the switch mounting hole.
Steve

[Dick Simonis]

When the slide is fully in or out the motor stalls...that the only indication we have for when it fully in or out.  Of course I may have the limit switches and the are not operating but I haven't had occasion to visit the stuff under the bed so I really don't know.  I need to come up with a way to get it open and keep it open but it's really heavy.  Also, in my coach the relay is in the cabinet behind the TV.

At least I don't have the Sony TV anymore so access is not that tough.

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

When the slide is moved in or out the motor does not stall it is actually cut off by the limit switches in both directions so I think it is working O.K. in that regard.

Later Ed