Fresh water refill cuts off before tank is full

[Mike Stuart]

On my 02' Marquis, when filling my fresh water tank, the refill process cuts off before the tank is full.  I have a 100 gallon tank and the cut off has gotten progressively worse over time.  Originally it filled to 95 gallons, then 88, then reduced to 75-77 gallons and now cuts off at 67 gallons.  I suspect there is a fill float switch in the tank and it is malfunctioning.  Is this reasonably accessible?  I haven't seen any documentation on location and it is not readily apparent.

As an alternative, I have thought about rigging a direct control to the Red Hat valve and just controlling the refill myself.  This option is not without risks, but if one is careful it is a possible solution.  Any thoughts on that?  Also, I'm unsure of the wiring for the Red Hat valve; there are two red wires and a green/yellow wire coming out of it.  I assume the green/yellow wire is the ground.  Can anyone offer guidance on the Red Hat wiring? 

Thanks in advance!

[Bill Lampkin]

Your auto refill is controlled by your Aladdin system. I suspect that the fresh tank sensor needs to be replaced or at least recalibrated. The red hat solenoid is controlled by the aladdin tank module, all tank and lp tank sensors are plugged into this module. My tank module is located on the curb side, in a compartment just ahead of the drive axle. My tank module went haywire, so I had to 'jumper' the auto fill wiring so I could fill the fresh tank. If you find your tank module, you can see a rj-11 (telco style) plug that says 'auto fill' or something. Pull the plug out of the module, find the red and black ( I think) wires and use a paper clip to short or jumper the two wires at the rj11 plug. The red hat will open and fill the tank as long as your jumper is connected. Pull the jumper and the flow stops and all is back to normal. I can't be sure on the wire colors, you'll have to verify, but to me it was pretty obvious, you are looking for 12v power and ground. Works like a charm. As for the tank sensor, they are available (google aladdin tank sensor) about $50. For recalibration, see the files section for Aladdin.

[Bill Lampkin]

To clarify the auto fill wiring, the rj-11 plug is low (12vdc) wiring. The red hat is 120vac. Easier to control the red hat at the tank module (rj-11 plug) low voltage wiring than trying to use a 120vac 'killer cord' to activate the red hat directly. The tank module sends 120vac to the red hat when it senses a low tank level and your auto fill switch is closed or activated. When you jumper the two wires on the rj 11 plug, you are sending an 'on' signal to the tank control board that will in turn send 120vac to the red hat. Clear as mud?

[Frank Bergamo]

Mike, I don't think you have the Alladin system. I believe you have the Silverleaf system. Sensors may be different. I have found that the angle of the coach while filling water tank makes a difference in how full I can fill tank. I get more water into my tank when front end is higher than rear of coach. Don't know if this is your problem, but it is worth a try before you spend $$$ on a new Redhat or tank sensors. Hope this helps.

[Bill Lampkin]

Frank, Had no idea Silverleaf was used on Marquis coaches. Learn something new every day! I did google Silverleaf, and on their house and telematics forum, they suggest a dry calibration (empty tank) when sensor starts to fail. Google Silverleaf and find the forum. Simple procedure. Might buy you some time before you need to replace your tank sensor.

[Gerald Farris]

Mike ,
Your coach definitely has a Sliverleaf system and a CMP 20 house monitoring system. You Red Hat cutoff point sensor is the water level sensor. There is no float inside the water tank. I think that Beaver had started using a pressure sensor for tank level sensing by the time your coach was built, if so there may be an adjustment or recalibration that would help your issue. Another thought is, are you really sure how much water is in your tank or are you just looking at a gauge that may be malfunctioning? My suggestion would be to call Silverleaf, and see if they can steer you in the right direction. You do not want to convert the Red Hat to a manual valve for numerous reasons from tank siphoning to valve failure, and just the inconvenience of loosing the autofill feature.   

Gerald 

[Mike Stuart]

Thanks everyone!
I definitely have the Silverleaf system.  Also, I'm definitely sure the quantity readout is correct.  And to be sure the coach is level when filling.  (This is a problem that has gotten worse over time, so I have a lot of experience with it). 
So it sounds like i need to investigate what is triggering the "full" indication to the system and closing the Red Hat.  I'll give Silverleaf a call and see what they advise.

Thanks again for the advice.

[Keith Moffett]

Hey Mike, we had the 02 Marquis with the Silverleaf  VMS 320.  Our tank cut off just like that until we replaced the Red Hat.  Yours should be in the compartment with the water pump and screen filter.

[Bill Lampkin]

And I should correct my earlier post; the auto fill coil (red hat) is 12vdc, not 120vac as I stated. Too many years of seeing/using red hats w/120vac coils in industry.

[Mike Stuart]

I found the problem.   The tank IS filling to maximum.  It is the level sensinging that is incorrect.  All things considered, I would rather have that problem than a fill limitation.  And Gerald is correct my 2002 model apparently uses a pressure switch to cut off the fill.  Thanks Gerald!

So I need to calibrate the fresh water tank.  There are some posts on the forum that indicate how to do so.  Does anyone know where I can find a manual for the CMP-20 panel?  Evidently one exists and it would be nice to read the information before attempting the recalibration.  I called SilverLeaf but was told that the CMP-20 is not supported by them or anyone, so it sounds like it is an orphaned system.  Just to be sure, I searched their web site but no luck on any info on the CMP-20.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks to all!

[Bill Lampkin]

I found this on the forum:

My 2001 has the CMP-20 Coach Monitoring System.  Assuming yours has the same system, the programing information that I have is as follows:

1) Place the unit in the Diagnostic Mode.  You do this by pushing all four touch keypad buttons on the CMP-20, inside of your coach, down at the same exact time.  This takes me both hands and a few tries to accomplish.  You will see the display change to raw full and empty data when you get into this mode.

2) Program the TL-II.  This is a module located, in my coach, above the water pump bay in the rear of the basement storage area.  There are several of the metal boxes throughout the bay and a few of them are located above the water pump bay.  They have green indicator lights on them.  There is a mini rotary selector switch in the top of the TL-II module with a push button next to it. In my coach, the module must be taken off the bulkhead to access these switches.  Calibration is accomplished by adjusting the fluid in the tank to the proper level, selecting the appropriate position on the rotary selector and pushing the button.

Position 0 = no action - switch must be left in this position for proper operation
Position 1 = set empty calibration on fresh tank
Position 2 = set empty calibration on gray tank
Position 3 = set empty calibration on black tank
Position 4 = unused
Position 5 = set full calibration on fresh tank
Position 6 = set full calibration on gray tank
Position 7 = set full calibration on black tank
Position 8 = unused
Position 9 = Restore factory defaults to all tanks

When you push the program button you should watch the green light and count the flashes:

Flashes
1 = Calibration good
2 = 0 selected on rotary switch - no acton
3 = Invalid tank (4 or 8 selected)
4 = Empty calibration error - tank not empty - sensor or channel bad
5 = Full calibration error - tank probably not full - sensor or channel bad
6 = Full calibration error - tank probably over full - sensor or channel bad

3) Be sure the rotary switch is returned to the 0 position.  Turn the CMP-20 off and then back on to exit the diagnostic mode.  Your new calibration will be retained in memory even if power is off.

Now that I have given you all of this, I need to say that I have never done this on my coach and the manual states that full calibration should not be necessary.   

I would assume that a sensor that falls too far outside of the expected parameters would come in as a calibration error. 
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