Author Topic: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?  (Read 2854 times)

Paul Matasso

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Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« on: September 06, 2020, 07:48:25 PM »
When I park and shut down the coach, I trip the breaker on the storage GFI within 15-20seconds.

I shut off both battery kill switches in the battery bay, and I shut off the coach kill switch by the door.

Am I doing something wrong or do I have a problem? I also have the refrigerator turned to off, so it isn’t the fridge.

Paul
2006 Patriot Thunder
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 08:18:58 PM by Paul Matasso »

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Re: Trip GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2020, 08:23:31 PM »
Paul,
Assuming you've successfully used this storage power source in the past, turn off all AC circuit breakers in the coach. Then plug in to storage power source and if it doesn't trip, turn CBs on one at a time to locate circuit that is causing problem. If GFI trips with all CBs off, I's suspect  a problem with source or power cable/plugs as only coach component involved in this mode is the transfer switch.
Steve
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2020, 09:14:02 PM »
Why are you plugging in if your shutting off the battery disconnects (or was that just for testing the GFI problem)?

On my Coach I have to set the Inverter/Charger for 20A Shore Power (via the Xantrex remote) before I plug in to my garage outlet so the Charger will not try to output too many amps and trip the breaker. Could your breaker be tripping due to over current and not a GFI fault?

David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2020, 11:43:03 PM »
On our coach, there are several electrical devices that are not fed from the inverter.  Thus, if I set the inverter down to use no more than 20 amps, for example, then the fridge when drawing AC, for example, will be using 3.5 amps that is not included in the inverter 20 amp limitation.  So, if the inverter is supplying the full 20 amp limit to other devices like the charging function, then the draw on the AC legs will be 23.5 amps.

This is why when we are using the Honda portable 3000w generator, I set the inverter down to a 15 amp limited draw or thereabouts... so that the Honda generator is not asked to supply but about 18.5 amps plus a few amps for other devices not inverter-supplied with power.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 01:28:53 AM by David T. Richelderfer »
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2020, 12:32:42 AM »
Paul, some years ago a member, Ed Buker, clued us in to the idea that GFCI’s come in different qualities.  Some are just too sensitive to the slightest variance in the circuit, which is what they’re supposed to do.  But there are higher quality ones out there that are “smarter” and do their job without repetitive annoyances.  Your issue may be a builder’s cheaper bulk purchased storage GFCI. 

I had one in my garage at the workbench.  Replacing it per Ed’s comments resolved the problem... it hasn’t tripped in years.  I think I got the better device at Lowe’s, as Ed suggested;  but realize that the better made units may cost more, and don’t go cheapskate here.  These days it is common to find them with arc fault technology included.  A good American brand is Square D, probably the most common, easily found brand - Lowe’s, Ace, Home Depot, etc.;  but still be sure it’s best quality for your application.

All that said, it doesn’t mean there isn’t another cause relative to the coach itself, as others here reference.  If the batteries are for some reason low when you park, like a bad alternator, then the inverter’s charger kicking in while set at the wrong voltage parameter (as Mike suggests) may kick the storage breaker and with no relation to ground fault... just plain over current.  What current rating is the storage outlet?   With a Magnum inverter unit on an ‘06 coach, on its remote (over your entry door?) scroll to the incoming source current setting and make sure it matches your storage outlet’s rating, and remember to adjust it according to any campsite’s power in the future.  If you need guidance on using the remote, there may be a section in the ‘06 Thunder manual here in our Private Members Only Coach Assist section.

If it’s not happening at campsites or a relative’s garage circuit on the road when you plug in to those with GFCI breakers (if you happen to have only 20amp) then I’d check into getting the storage one switched out.

Joel
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 12:53:50 AM by Joel Ashley »
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Scott Shearer

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2020, 02:45:52 AM »
Paul,

If your coach, being a 2006 Thunder, has what the owner’s manual refers to as the ‘late model’ rear run box you’d be better served by using the dash mounted ‘Coach Power’ switch and leave the disconnects in the battery compartment on. By using the disconnect switches in the battery compartment you are disabling the BIRD system and consequently your chassis batteries will not charge while connected to shore power.

The ‘late model’ rear run box incorporates a more robust house disconnect system than earlier models and is less prone to failure.

I’ve never felt it necessary to kill the 12-volt power while connected to shore or gen-set power.

The easiest was to determine late vs early model rear run box:
Late model, the Big Boy relay is buss mounted with the large terminals facing down.
Earlier model the Big Boy relay is connect by cabling with the large terminals facing up.
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2020, 01:21:45 PM »
On our coach, there are several electrical devices that are not fed from the inverter.  Thus, if I set the inverter down to use no more than 20 amps, for example, then the fridge when drawing AC, for example, will be using 3.5 amps that is not included in the inverter 20 amp limitation.  So, if the inverter is supplying the full 20 amp limit to other devices like the charging function, then the draw on the AC legs will be 23.5 amps.

Okay - then set the max Charge rate to 15A, if the 20A is too high.

I'm still not sure if OP's breaker is tripping on over current or the GFI.


Paul Matasso

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2020, 01:17:15 AM »
First of all I want to thank everyone for responding. I do in fact have the late model 2006 as the picture showed. I did exactly as you guys suggested. Set the coach to read 15 amps, turned on both kill switches in the battery bay, and still tripped the GFI. After a quick reset, I then flipped all breakers and one by one brought them back on. Starting with the inverter breakers, the coach began to charge the batteries. The last one I turned back on was the lamp,table,tv,entertainment, and then it tripped the GFI. Something there is drawing too much, so I left it off and will start looking for the issue soon. I did also change the inverter to 20amps and I watched the amps pick up as the charger began to use more,(nothing else was on at the time) I ran out of time to trouble shoot the excess draw from that breaker but that’s next. Once again thank you all for such detailed info it was invaluable.

Fred Brooks

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2020, 02:12:12 PM »
    Paul,
   Glad to hear that you are zeroing in on your issue. Those items that you mentioned that are the cause can be isolated because they are passing thru the inverter to their destination thru a sub-panel. This panel is located in the third storage compartment up on the ceiling I think. (perhaps Mike S. will chime in to confirm) The sub-panel has a 20 amp main breaker and then 3 circuits. Microwave, some outlets in the kitchen & bathroom and the front and rear TV's and related components. Also the ice maker. Either one of these loads are exceeding the GFI resource or they have an internal "leak" causing the GFI to trip. FYI, GFI receptacles measure the power they send out by measuring the power they get back to them thru the neutral wire. If they don't get back what they send out they trip. Let us know what you figure out, Hope this helps, Fred
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2020, 02:24:44 PM »
Or start by simply unplugging everything from all the recepticals on that circuit and see if the GFI kicks out.  If it doesn't kick out, then plug things back in one at a time until the GFI kicks out.  There may be some devices (like a powered awning) wired in, as opposed to plugged in, on the circuit which will present a more complex problem solution.
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2020, 02:38:22 PM »
   Dave,
I was just trying to define the search because you know how hard it is to get to the recepticles on some of these items. Fred
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2020, 02:50:49 PM »
Or we could just tell him to unplug the wife's hair dryer.  That's what most often kicks our GFI out.  lol
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Keep Tripping GFI when storing, Help?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2020, 03:08:59 PM »
Don't rule out a bad GFI breaker at the Storage unit. It may be overly sensitive to whatever is going on with that circuit.

 Here's a snip from the wiring diagrams showing the circuit (I circled the breaker that I believe you said is causing the GFI to trip). I had to shrink the picture a lot to get it to upload here (300KB is max upload allowed). If it is too small to read, you can get this wiring diagram from the Coach Assist section.


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