Three problems... hopefully related

[David T. Richelderfer]

I went out to the 2004 Marquis this morning to get it ready to move into our driveway.  The plan was to depart tomorrow morning heading to our winter residence in the Foothills of Yuma.  The problems:

1. With the ignition key in the OFF position, I retracted the electric bedroom slide with no problem but the curbside hydraulic living room slide will not close.  I had the two slides open to make it easier to load for the trip to Yuma.  I noted what sounds like a weak sound emanating from the hydraulic pump.  I tried to open the streetside hydraulic living room slide.  It would open but I stopped it after about 4" and it would not close.  Again, I noted what sounds like a weak sound emanating from the hydraulic pump.  Now I have one living room slide completely open and the other about 4" to 6" open, and neither will close.

2. On the Aladdin joystick pad there is a red power light indicating at least the joystick pad is getting power.  The Kenwood screen in the dash will not light up and its red power light is not ON/flashing.  I tried pushing the Kenwood buttons in an effort to get a response.  I did... the screen retracted into the dash and now I cannot get it open again.  I cannot find the Kenwood manual for instructions on how to get the Kenwood screen to come out of the dash and stand up in viewing position.  I tried resetting the Aladdin with no success.

3. I tried to start the coach's engine.  It will not start when turning the key on normally.  I noted the transmission keypad has what appears to be an asterick with a circle around it.  I have never seen this circled asterick insignia before... only have seen an N or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6.  Without an N for neutral transmission status, I know the engine will not start.  Also noted on the dash with the key ON to start the engine, the "check trans" light is ON and there is a pulsing sound like a heartbeat coming from either the transmission keypad or dash area.

A few other noteworthy remarks:

In the past few weeks, I have opened and closed the slides, viewed the Kenwood screen, and started the engine to air the systems up and check to see that the coach is in operating condition.  These operations I have done several times in the past few weeks.

The coach is plugged into 50 amp and the inverter remote panel is reporting the batteries at full charge - reporting 13.7v.  I assume this 13.7v is the house batteries, maybe not the chassis batteries.  I have not separately checked the voltage at the chassis batteries (thinking perhaps the Big Boy/BIRD may not be working but they have always worked perfectly).  Because the Kenwood screen is not functioning, I am unable to use the Aladdin/Kenwood screen to separately check the house and chassis batteries' charge status.  I will get my multitester out and check the chassis batteries in a little while.

Questions, comments, diagnosis?

[David T. Richelderfer]

So I checked the voltages across the Big Boy.  There are 13.7v going in from the fuse panel lead but only 8.3v coming out to what I assume is the charging lead to the chassis batteries (two 12v no-maintenance batteries).  The voltage across the two batteries' terminals is also 8.3v.  I put one of my chargers (set on 15a) on the chassis batteries and it is showing me 8.2v and charging.

With the charger attached, the Kenwood screen's red power light seems to be flashing.  Perhaps my Big Boy needs replacing... as well as my two chassis batteries.  Those two batteries were replaced in July 2013... that's over 8 years old!

Is it possible for the batteries to be bad and cause the bad voltage reading coming out from the Big Boy?  My question meaning, "Can replacing the two batteries fix the problems and the Big Boy may not need replacing?"

[Joel Ashley]

Sure sounds like you have a high resistance corroded or loose main ground somewhere, by the symptoms.  The inverter remote is a separate connection and will report the house voltage regardless of a poor main battery one.  But check the solenoid in the electrical bay, streetside foremost;  you’ve been on the Forum long enough to know it’s a common culprit. 

Joel

But your last post indicates you may have zeroed in on the issue.  Many here disassemble their Big Boy and resurrect the contacts that, like any long-utilized “Ford” solenoid, burn and corrode over time.

Even if the chassis set were okay at their age (mine lasted over 12 years), once non-deepcycles have been kicked to such a low voltage, they’ll never be the same again anyway.  Setting parked all summer without the Big Boy switching to charge them, the engine parasite ECM ran them down.  I’d replace them with Interstates, 31MHD I think, but check if your larger engine requires otherwise.

[Bill Lampkin]

Maybe you can get away with cleaning the Big Boy solenoid. See 'Common Problems' under 'Technical' over at beaveramb.org

[Fred Brooks]

David,
Temporarily run a jumper cable from the house batteries positive to the chassis batteries positive to move the rooms. Big boy is your issue, rebuild or replace. Fred

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

David,
Also try hitting the battery boost switch. It will cause the Big Boy to close and maybe make better contact. Also verify the Bird is operating normally, The manual in Coach Assist is very good.
Steve

[David T. Richelderfer]

Okay... I got the slides to retract by using the battery boost to combine the battery banks.  Also, when using the battery boost, the transmission keypad shows an N now.

After using the battery boost, the inverter's charging power going into the Big Boy is showing 14.1v.  Remember, it was 13.7v earlier.  So... obviously, the inverter was reset in my experimentation and started over with BULK charging.  Interestingly, now the charging power coming out of the Big Boy is showing the same voltage, 14.1v, as the voltage going into it is 14.1v.  Thus, the chassis batteries should now be receiving that 14.1v charging power.  Perhaps in the morning, the chassis batteries will be charged up.

Be that as that may be, I already went to NAPA and purchased two new Group 31 batteries - 950 CCA, full-price warranty for 18 months followed by pro-rata warranty for 18 additional months, $150 each plus $27 core charge each.  When I return the old batteries, I'll be refunded the core charges.  Interestingly, these new batteries are nearly the same dimensions except for their height is 9", whereas the old batteries are about 7".

I still have not managed to get the Kenwood screen to come out and up from the dash!  I will look for its operator's manual online.

[Mike Shumack]

If you have the Kenwood M700 or M707 unit, there is a reset button on the lower right corner. You insert a paperclip in the hole and push the button inside.

[David T. Richelderfer]

Yes, it's a Kenwood KVT-M700.  You told me about that reset button some time back - a few years ago, I believe.  I have reset it numerous times in the last day - lol.  I found the unit's instruction manual on the internet and it says by simply pushing the OPEN button, the screen moves in and out.  The problem is its screen will just jitter out a quarter-inch and immediately retract.  The screen will not fully extend out of the dash and stand up.

Perhaps this morning after charging the chassis batteries all night, the screen will work better.  We'll see.  It's just starting to get light here at 6:50 am.

[David T. Richelderfer]

Okay, all appears to be working properly this morning.  The Kenwood screen even extended when I pressed the OPEN button!  The inverter's remote is showing 13.7v and since I now have access to the Aladdin on the Kenwood screen, both the house and chassis battery banks are showing 13.7v.  BTW, I have not installed the two new chassis batteries yet.  If the Marquis starts okay this morning when I intend to move it to my driveway from beside my garage.  There it would be much easier to install the new batteries.

I guess if we get the final things loaded into the Marquis this morning, then we could still depart this afternoon and stay at the Wildhorse Casino tonight.  The casino is only 35 miles from here.  Thanks for the help... AGAIN.

[Scott Shearer]

David,

As Fred mentioned above, the Big Boy relay is most likely the root of your problem. There is a good chance that you will experience ongoing intermittent charging issues, chassis battery charging while you are on shore/generator power or house battery charging while you are traveling (engine alternator power). You don’t want your house batteries to go dead while traveling, if they you do, you will need to run your generator.

At some point, your troubleshooting probably de-energized the Big Boy allowing it to reestablish a good contact when it was re-energized. As Steve pointed out, cycling the Big Boy can be a ‘temporary fix’. However, it is best if the Big Boy is de-energized first. It will do little good to use the boost switch if the Big Boy is already in the closed (energized) position.

Doubt that your Kenwood screen slide issue was related, ours does the same if someone retracts the screen. It requires some careful coaxing to get it to extend.  Keep in mind that you can always view the Aladdin system on your TVs.

-Scott

[David T. Richelderfer]

This morning after installing the new batteries, I checked on the voltages on the inverter remote, and on the Aladdin/Kenwood for the house and chassis batteries.  Interestingly, the inverter remote indicated 14.1v, the house batteries as shown on the Aladdin/Kenwood were 14.1v but the Aladdin/Kenwood showed the chassis batteries at 13.7v.  YUP, the Big Boy is working intermittently.  When I pressed the boost button, the chassis batteries showed 14.1v instantly.

We have searched locally and in the Tri-Cities, WA for a Big Boy on the parts shelf.  No one has one in the store.
 Thus, I have decided to look for one en route to Yuma, or I will order one when I get there.

Oh, and our Aladdin is NOT hooked up to our TVs.  At least, in over 9 years I have not found the secret to seeing its reports on either of our TVs - living room or bedroom.  None of the TV input selections on either TV will bring it up.  Though, I am able to get the three outside cameras to show on the Aladdin/Kenwood screen, the Silverleaf screen, and the bedroom TV.

[Stan Simpson]

David,
We had our Beaver for 5 or 6 years, and I could never figure out why I couldn't see the Aladdin output on the overhead TV while parked. While researching the possibility of switching out the 40" Samsung the PO installed, I found a Yellow (video) RCA cable coming out of the cabinet above the driver's side window. It was threaded through to the TV cabinet and was just lying there. I hooked it up to the Yellow RCA input on the back of the TV, and Voila!

[Fred Brooks]

   David,
Stan is correct. however the new smart tv's do not have an rca video input. You may have to purchase an adaptor to upgrade the RCA video to an input compatible with what you have. Fred

[Fred Brooks]

    https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Composite-Adapter-Supports-Blu-Ray/dp/B0814Z34XG should do