Author Topic: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry  (Read 3107 times)

Jack W Hannah

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Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« on: May 01, 2022, 09:20:38 PM »
When starting my '02 Patriot recently I notices that the Driver's-Front air suspension hadn't raised the coach to the same height as the other 3 corners. In fact, it was so low I didn't consider it safe to drive.
Diagnosis from a Mobile tech was a leaking ride-height valve which I sourced from BCS and had him install. During removal of the old valve we discovered that it didn't have a filter it. This replacement resulted in only minor improvement to the lift so he adjusted the valve linkage to provide maximum lift. Now the Driver's Front is approx even with both rear wheels but the Passenger's Front is 2" higher than the  Driver's front. He pulled off the air line that feeds the Driver's front air bag, suspecting obstruction, but it was flowing freely. Next we sprayed the Driver's Front air bag with soapy water but found no air leaks.
I bought the coach in  2018 but I'm pretty sure it has the original air bags.
So currently, when air suspension is fully inflated the Passenger's Front is 2" higher than the Driver's Front.
Any ideas on what is causing this imbalance?
Thank you,


Jack Hannah
2002 Patriot 40B, Monticello
Cat 3126, Magnum Series B

Fred Brooks

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2022, 09:36:48 PM »
   Does the coach have HWH air leveling when parked?
Fred & Cindy Brooks
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Jack W Hannah

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 07:39:33 PM »
Fred,
Not that I know of. Would this be a feature of the air suspension?
The only "Leveling" performed by this coach that I"m aware of is the SMC leveling system with the control pad on the driver's console used to level the coach when parked.
Jack Hannah
2002 Patriot 40B, Monticello
Cat 3126, Magnum Series B

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2022, 08:21:39 PM »
Jack
Does your coach have a single ride height control valve on the front axle or one for each front wheel ?

If it is a single ride height control valve I would be looking closely at the front  suspension trailing arms and track bars
 ( torque rods).
In the Magnum chassis coaches they used ZF designed torque rods , these torque rods have seal swivel ball end on each end unfortunately over time the seals deteriorate and allow moisture in which causes them to seize the ball in the rod end .
This usually results in a groaning noise when traveling over bumps in the road but if enough of them are seized it may limit or stop the suspension from traveling .

To check off the weight off the front axle with the leveling jack and check to see that the H frame drops out to the point the limiting straps ( nylon straps four in total ) are tight indicating full suspension extension.
Place a set of jack stands under the front suspension hanger brackets where the torque rods connect to the frame for safety then  try to rotate the torque rods on the balls ( you may have to use a pipe wrench on the torque rod shaft.
They should rotate with light to moderate force and there should be no slop in the ball ends as they are a close tolerance.

I suspect you will find one or more which won't move indicating a ball end or ends are  seized and requiring remove to free them up and or replace them all together .
Most suspension shops will opt to replace them but if you can do the work your self they can usually be freed up lubed and re sealed I have found that Meritor makes a dust seal for a brake caliper which will replace the bad seals.
If you go this route you may consider drilling and installing grease fitting in the rod ends as I did.
If you decide to go new the torque rods can be supplied by BCS at considerable expensive or they can be replaced with a weld together kit as I have linked to below.

https://www.meritorpartsxpress.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/meritor-na/caliper-hardware-73501--1/68324854-item68324854

https://www.truckspring.com/products/Torque-Rod-Fruehauf-3-Piece-30-to-40-Inches__TS-345-812.aspx

Hope this helps
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Fred Brooks

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 08:22:22 PM »
 Jack,
The reason I asked is because if it had HWH air leveling, there is a 6 solenoid pack that controls leveling side to side. When they fail, it can cause your symtoms. Normally there is only one height control for the front air bags. If you are not level in the front, you may want to check the rear from side to side. Example: If the left rear was higher then the right front will be lower. Fred
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Jack W Hannah

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 09:59:52 PM »
Eric,
Thank you for your response and detailed information.
Some additional info regarding my situation:
1. The leveling system on my coach doesn't use the traditional leveling jacks. My systems uses Hydraulic rams that make contact w/the axles, therefore the wheels themselves are always under load.
2. My coach has only one ride height valve in front.
3. I purchased this coach in late 2018 and only recently been getting to know it. During a recent inspection underneath the Driver's Front wheel area a broken weld was discovered by a mobile tech. Further inspection revealed a broken weld that attaches, the wheel well structure supporting the plastic wheel well lining, to the frame. Examining up inside the wheel well revealed a loose and deformed plastic wheel well liner. The mobile mechanic asked if I have ever had a blow-out, which I hadn't.
4. This level of repair is beyond my capabilities so I will be taking it to a shop for this work.

Thanks again for this input as I intend to share your thought with the repair shop.
Jack Hannah
2002 Patriot 40B, Monticello
Cat 3126, Magnum Series B
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 01:00:51 AM »
Jack,
Side to side leveling is controlled by the 2 air bag valves on the rear axle. The front unit only controls front end height. Suggest you (or shop for safety sake) adjust the rear bag height. You probably want to raise the right rear slightly and lower the left rear accordingly. You may not get it perfect but it should be an improvement. I had a similar issue with my 01 Contessa (same levelign system). Never could get it perfectly level after spending almost a day at it. Passenger side was lower even when I reversed the supply lines from the valve to the front bags. (Ah, the mysteries of Magnum). :)
Steve
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2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2022, 03:30:25 AM »
Jack
I have to agree with both Fred and Steve the first place to start is with the rear ride height valves , on your coach the side to side leveling is done by the rear ride height valve ( one for each side ) .
The ride height is measured from the upper mounting plate to the lower mounting plate of the air bags the measurement should be 10 inches at all air bags and is adjusted via the ride height valve vertical rod length ( caution this is best done on a wheel lift or in  a service pit as getting under the coach and working on the ride height valve poses a serious crushing hazard ) while your mechanic is there it's probably time to replace the Leveling rod connectors as they get brittle with age and break usually on a rough road in the middle of nowhere creating a problem .

https://www.haldex.com/en/na/suspension-controls/height-control-valve/repair-kits/rn10jc/

Hope this helps
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Jack W Hannah

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2022, 10:29:14 PM »
Eric/Steve;

Thanks to both of you for such informative replys; much appreciated.
I tried to print this thread to share with my repair shop but couldn't figure out how. When hit the print button my screen fills with all the text but nowhere is there an actual print button. I went to the Forum help section but didn’t find any info on printing a thread. I also tried a couple of Simple Machine links at the bottom of the page but didn’t find anything there either. Can either one of you tell me how to print, or direct me to the instructions on printing? Thank you. 
Jack Hannah
2002 Patriot 40B, Monticello
Cat 3126, Magnum Series B

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2022, 11:33:17 PM »
Jack,
Click "Print" on the top right of the tool bar of the latest post. It will bring up a printable version of the thread. Then right click on the thread and it will show your PC's print option. Select print and your printer should do its thing. This is based on a Windows 10 system. I'll email you a copy in case you still have issues.
 Steve
Steve
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2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Joel Ashley

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2022, 12:03:20 AM »
Apple/Mac will work basically the same way, Jack.  Right click the printable thread sheet that pops up when you hit the "Print" button Steve describes and choose "Print page" or choose Print from the computer's "File" menu on the Menu Bar, very top left of your screen.  On an iPad, when the printable thread page appears, the square with an arrow in it at the top right will take you to a menu that contains a "Print" link to your printer if it's on the same network.  Relatively new to Macs but not iPads, I was combobulated that without a mouse my then new MacBook wouldn't right-click, so I got an $8 mouse that solved that issue;  then I learned that "control" together with a touchpad click was the "right-click" function on a MacBook.

The Forum's "Print" button brings up a printable format, but like many sites it doesn't actually provide a printing function built in; i.e. it can't print itself.  That's why you searched the printable page but couldn't find a way to take it to the next step... printing it.  Instead you must tell your computer or other device to print that printable page, just as you would most other webpages or documents.  So use the the old "right click" or other menu option your device provides.  In general but not always, "right click" has meant bringing up a menu that has operative functions that can do something with whatever page you right clicked on.  It has long been a feature of both Windows and Apple machines.

Joel

Addendum:  Steve, maybe a simple "How to print a thread" feature should be added to the Forum Assistance/Operating Guide or other appropriate section, basically about right-clicking a printable page brought up by the "Print" button.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 01:43:50 AM by Joel Ashley »
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Richard Good

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2022, 06:51:34 PM »
This reply is actually for Eric Maclean. Thanks for the info on the dust seal cover. I assume they will work for my 1998 Patriot Ticonderoga which is a Magnum chasis.I have packed hard grease around the outside where the old rubber seal used to be. This has worked, but your solution is much more elegant. Thanks for the dust seal part number. A question for you regarding removing the torque rods. I have not attempted removing any of the torque rods out of fear that something may move, preventing me getting it back together. When you removed them, did you have any issue with the bolts lining up on reinstallation? Also, what size grease fitting did you install? Were they 1/8" pipe thread?
98 Patriot Ticonderoga, CAT 3126, Blue Ox Towbar, 2023 Kia Forte GT manual.

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2022, 07:47:11 PM »
Richard
With the front end up on jack stands (set the jack stands on the big bracket that the torque rods mount to the frame with to support the coach) now with  the wheels off and the axle hanging just remove one torque rod at a time the bolts should line up pretty well when you put it back in .
While I had mine out I drilled and taped each end and installed grease fittings so they could be lubed.
When you remove the remains of the old seals you will see there is a slight groove that the old seal was crimped onto
Install the new seal and secure it with stainless safety wire in that groove you may want to use some sealant or glue to help hold the seal while you get the safety wire tight.

Hope this helps
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Richard Good

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2022, 10:26:25 PM »
Hi Eric, thanks for the reply. I have ordered and received seals for one torque rod. I will try one and go from there. I do not have a shop, so will have to do it outside. I have done pretty much everything else myself outside, so that will be one more project on my to do list.
98 Patriot Ticonderoga, CAT 3126, Blue Ox Towbar, 2023 Kia Forte GT manual.

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum Chassic Air Suspension Inquiry
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2022, 09:36:31 PM »
Richard
I know the feeling well I've done most of the work on this coach right in my parking spot at home.
Just remember to support those jack stands well I use 2 foot square 3/4 ply wood to put the jack stands on to keep them from sinking into the gravel or pavement.
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.