Towing

[John 'Bo' Achord]

I just purchased a Beaver Contessa 2008 w/400 Cat about 6-months ago.  I am in the process of purchasing a 2011 Honda CR-V front wheel drive to pull  behind the coach. I plan on purchasing a Blue Ox Allandin Towing System.
Can anyone give me some feed back on this system and also tell me if I need to purchase the Blue Ox Patriot Braking system or is the coach big enough to handle the dinghy when braking ?

[Richard And Babs Ames]

http://www.fmca.com/ FMCA posts towing laws by state. A towed trailer (toad) under a certain weight limit does not require a supplimential braking system. Very important to have one from a liability standpoint if it weighs over the state requirement.

 As long as you do not exceed the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight rating) of your Contessa you will be OK. When you get over it and still under the CGVW (Combined Gross Vehicle Weight rating) you might consider one. http://www.rvsafety.com RVSEF has a good topic about the GVW GCVW definitions and weights.

Their are a lot of opinions about what supplimential braking system is best but we personally do not like a system that uses the toad's battery to activate and they can be a pain to set up.

[John 'Bo' Achord]

Richard , Thanks so much for the info. This will be very helpful. I will resd  the topic about hte GVW/GCVW.

[Joel Weiss]

This topic engenders lots of emotional discussion about once a month on virtually all of the RV forums.  IMHO I wouldn't be without a supplemental braking system regardless of state law issues.   As one person posted on a thread about this a few months ago, you no doubt have >$100k invested in your MH and probably >$25k in your toad plus all your possessions and, of course, your family.  Therefore, why would anyone quibble about a safety investment of <$2k?

As a retired physics teacher, I will agree that >90% of the time all of our coaches will be safe with toads that do not exceed the MH tow rating.  However, I can easily describe scenarios in which the safety margin is greatly reduced or vanishes completely.  FWIW, I think that's what insurance is for, to protect against what people call "low probability of occurrence, high impact" events.

BTW, we have a ReadyBrake system integrated into a ReadyBrute tow bar.  You can also add it to any other towbar.  It is relatively inexpensive and simple and has worked well for us for 15,000 miles.

[MarcRodstein]

I am in strongly favor of supplemental braking for everyone. No matter how well (or poorly) your coach/tow car combination can stop with coach brakes alone, nobody can argue that it will not stop better if the tow car brakes are assisting. That extra bit of braking power could save a life.

Imagine a panic stop where it takes 200 feet to stop with coach brakes alone. Now imagine that it takes 195 feet to stop with an aux brake added, and imagine a toddler on a bike located 197 feet from where you start braking. These figures are made up but the principal is clear as a bell. A foot or two could mean a life. Would you want it on your conscience that you saved a grand and killed somebody?

Not me!

Marc
Wellington, FL
2003 Beaver Monterey
US Gear Unified Tow Brake

[Joel Weiss]

Personally, I'm far more concerned about an "off-axis" situation in which the mass of the toad is not in a straight line with the axis of the MH.  That's what a jackknife is.  With toads weighing ~4000-5000 lbs behind 32,000 lb coaches, the toad is an appreciable fraction of the MH mass.  A toad that is not lined up behind the MH will produce a sideways force that pushes on the rear wheels. Under the right set of circumstances (slippery conditions, road surface, etc), the rear wheels will move sideways.

[Gil_Johnson]

I too favor supplemental braking for your towed vehicle.  Although some will debate state requirements for a self contained break-away braking system, I'm in the camp of common sense.  If supplemental braking is required for a trailer, it's likely required for your towed vehicle.  Regardless, in the event that your towed vehicle separates from your coach, which I hope is extremely remote, I would rather see the towed vehicle stop on its own rather than stopping after becoming an unguided missile.

I use SMI’s Air Force One braking system.  I’m installing it now on my 2012 Explorer after taking it off the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee I no longer have.

I also favor Roadmaster over Blue Ox.  This too is almost a religious debate.  I would only suggest that you look at the installation instructions for each for your vehicle and see which looks like a more resilient set-up.

I’m only voicing my opinion,

[Gil_Johnson]

I forgot to say congratulations John on your new coach.

[Bill Sprague]

I pulled a 3,000 pound Subaru behind our 33,000 pound Beaver for about 60,000 miles with no braking system.  I had one panic stop in West Virginia where I had a couple feet to spare.  When we traded to a 4,000 pound Ford Edge I got a Brakemaster by Roadmaster.  It is an air cylinder that gets air directly from the air brakes on the Beaver.  There are no electronics.  The more I press the pedal the more it presses the pedal.  I have no idea if it is enough or too much.   With fuel prices up, I drive a little slower, have driven another 30,000 miles and have not had any panic stops with the new system.  

IMHO, I really don't think anyone has ever done a side by side comparison of all the choices.  I don't think I could even do my own with or without the Brakemaster test.  If I did, all the dishes would break and I would be in big trouble.  Legally required or not, I don't know how to establish what works and what doesn't.

But, I feel better having it.

[Phil N Barb Rodriguez]

John, congrats on your new coach. I've had tow vehicles behind four different motorhomes we have had since 1986. I wouldn't consider towing without a supplemental braking system on my toad.

I have the same type Brakemaster system on my Cherokee that Bill has. I have 70k + miles on it between two Beavers including a round trip to Alaska. It has been very good to me and kept me out of a couple of tight situations. If a person keeps at safe following distances on a flat road and in town you might think you are ok without a braking system. However, driving a heavy coach with a toad on mountain grades changes the entire dyanmics of controlling the coach.

The only thing I would change if I were building the Brakemaster for RoadMaster is I would make it easier to change the system to another vehicle. The model I have is interconnected to the power brake system on the Cherokee. So changing it to another vehicle would be the same as a new install, which takes hours.

I would encourage you to install a supplemental brake system on your toad, regardless of toad weight.

[william thorup]

John,  I have a 2008 Contessa Westport 42...pretty sure the C9 engine is rated at 425hp.  I tow a Fort Sport Trac flat without a breaking system unless in States requiring it or in the mountains where I will use a Brake Buddy.  It has worked for me.  I normally to a Tandem Tow Dolly HD with a Honda Goldwing, Yamaha FJR and the Sport Trac.  The Tow Dolly has surge brakes.  So far so good.  I have not had any difficulty stopping and have about 32000 miles. My last RV was a 40 foot London Aire and I put 99,998.2 miles on it before trading for the Beaver. Those miles, towing  several dingies with only the Break Buddy..including a trip to Alaska. I have mixed feelings about breaking systems unless you have a means to know when it is breaking.

Bill Thorup
2008 Beaver Contessa Westport 42

[Joel Ashley]

John, let me also extend a warm welcome to the BAC.  There is no question you need to get an auxilliary brake.  As the other fellows have said, the savings in stopping distance may save a lot more than the system costs you.  And include the extra wear and tear on your expensive coach brakes that will be minimized.

I also use Roadmaster's Brakemaster because it is easier to deal with than the box type of units, and has statistics that indicate it is one of the most capable in matching toad braking power to the coach's.  The down side is its semi-permanent under-the-hood installation that's more difficult to transfer if you buy a new toad.  

That said, Roadmaster just came on the market with a whole new auxilliary brake that needs no add-or-remove actions when you hook and unhook your toad;  just remove the towbar, get in, and drive... or connect the towbar and that's all.  It's called Invisibrake.  I think it is not a difficult initial installation either.   It is pretty revolutionary, and you should check it out at Roadmaster's website.  It and the Brakemaster are not particularly inexpensive, but worth it in a lot of ways.  http://roadmasterinc.com/products/braking/invisibrake/index.html

Joel

[Gerald Farris]

John,
If you are not confused yet, I would like to add another option. First of all, I would not consider towing without an auxiliary brake for the toad. The one that I use is made by M&G. The M&G brake is a straight air cylinder that mounts permanently between the master cylinder and the brake booster. The only hookup is plugging in an air hose. I have been using the same M&G brake (on two different Grand Cherokees) for 130,000 miles over nine years with no problems. I love the system.

Gerald

[Bill Sprague]

John,
If you are not confused yet, I would like to add another option. First of all, I would not consider towing without an auxiliary brake for the toad. The one that I use is made by M&G. The M&G brake is a straight air cylinder that mounts permanently between the master cylinder and the brake booster. The only hookup is plugging in an air hose. I have been using the same M&G brake (on two different Grand Cherokees) for 130,000 miles over nine years with no problems. I love the system.

Gerald

That is the one I tried to buy, but they wouldn't provide the hardware for a Ford Edge.  Something on the firewall gets in the way.  Second choice was the air cylinder that pushes on the brake pedal made by Roadmaster.

[Gil_Johnson]

The problem with the M&G system is it will not fit in many new vehicles.  The all air alternative is the SMI Air Force One.  I have no complaints and it too only requires you to connect the air line to the coach to make it work.  If you're wondering, even though it gets it's air from the coach, it has a small air storage tank so it can support "break-away" braking.

Your Ford Edge may be similar to my new Explorer I'm configuring now.  The Explorer has separate brake and turn signal bulbs/LEDs.  So far I’ve been challenged to find a 2 wire to 3 wire converter.  All I’ve found is 3 wire to 2 wire.  If you have yellow turn signal lights on your Edge, how are you wiring them?