Brake Lights with Jake Brake

[Keith Oliver]

When I bought my 98 Contessa last year, the PO told me about the add on controller he had put in, that activates the brake lights when the engine Brake is on.  I added a brake controller for the tow dolly, and it shows the amount of braking being done by the TD.  The numbers range a lot higher when I am using the service brakes, but do put some braking on the TD when I am using just the EB.  The TD brakes show no signs of being over used.  As far as I can tell, it ain't broke, so I am not interested in changing it.

[Phil Sales]

I too am a former truck driver, still drive part time in the summer. None of the trucks I ever drove had lights to indicate the Jake was on.
I've explained my line of thought on other forums and seemed like I was talking to a wall,but here goes one more time.
On turbo-charged, electronically controlled diesel engines, there is no back pressure as in gas engines. When we go to fully closed throttle, there is no hold back power from the engine,as we are used to in our cars. This fact is why Jacobs developed the Jake. The Jake system fills that need. The old trucker rule," Decend a hill in the same gear you climbed it" is no longer a factor. If you shift down a truck that has no Jake, you just over rev the engine that much sooner, because the engine doesn't hold you back any more.
 Therefore, to have brake lights on during "Closed throttle"engine operation, (ie. deceleration) is the same IMHO, to having brake lights on just because you came off the gas in your car.
Therefore I see it as a false  warning, and as Marty said, I don't want to have my brake lights on, during deceleration, then not have a change in warning signal ,when I have to apply the brakes for a full stop. I have probably wasted all my time writing this, but I know it makes sense to Marty.

[Dick Simonis]

Phil, I'm trying hard to understand your reasoning.  While I understand the technical operation of the Jake brake I'm having difficulty understanding the downside of alerting following drivers that I'm braking regradless of whether it the Jake or service brake.

Granted I don't have a lot of experience with the jake but I have found that the bloody thing really puts out an anchor under the right circumstances...much more so than merely coasting and downshifting with a gas engine.  In fact the deceleration with the Jake is often time much more viguous than if I were applying the service brake.

I'm not disagreeing with you...just trying to understand the downside.

[Randy Perry]

[quote author=]Randy,

I'm curious why you wouldn't want to signal to those behind you that your coach is being braked, even though it's the engine brake doing it rather than your foot?

Just curious,

Gil

Hey Gil,

I guess it the times when I'm on a long downhill and I leave the EB on just to keep my speed in check. Other than that, I'm ok with it.

[/quote]

[Jeremy Parrett]

so the guy free wheeling down the hill  can run right into you eh?

[Gil_Johnson]

Phil,

Just an FYI, my engine brake does provide back pressure and does slow the coach down much more than it would if I just took my foot of the accelerator without the engine brake.  My engine is electronically controlled, so not all electronically controlled engines must be the same.  On mine, it has a variable vane turbo and when the engine brake is active it changes the pitch of these vanes enough to create back pressure.  I can't say how if compares to a Jake, but I do not I would want those following me to know I'm slowing down enough that they may have too as well.

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

Well stated Phil. I can't count how many times I've used my Jake with the transmission in the correct gear going down a long hill and the Jake is keeping me right at the posted speed limit. At these times brake lights do not need to be on. They are holding a particular speed. Marty

[Dick Simonis]

Well stated Phil. I can't count how many times I've used my Jake with the transmission in the correct gear going down a long hill and the Jake is keeping me right at the posted speed limit. At these times brake lights do not need to be on. They are holding a particular speed. Marty

True, but if you were using the coach brakes the lights would be on.  Whats the differance and why is it a problem if they're on with the jake.  That's the part I don't understand.

[LEAH DRAPER]

No one has mentioned the flasher light when going down hill.  Don't know whether it is requirement or just a courteous feature to let those behind know that you are moving slowly.  

Any discussion/comments ??

[Gerald Farris]

There is no right or wrong answer to this thread. My coach is set-up so that the brake lights are not activated with the Jake Brake. That is the way that I prefer it to function since I normally use it to hold the coach at a selected speed on downhill grades (usually the speed limit on straight roads and a safe speed on curvy roads). Another driver may prefer the brake lights on in the same circumstance, however they will both be right since this boils down to personal preference and how you feel the safest.

Gerald            

[Phil N Barb Rodriguez]

No one has mentioned the flasher light when going down hill.  Don't know whether it is requirement or just a courteous feature to let those behind know that you are moving slowly.  

Any discussion/comments ??

Seems to me that, by law, the flashers need to be flashing on semi trucks when the vehicle speed is 45mph and below. Don't know if that applies to all commercial vehicles.

I believe there are 18 wheeler folks on here that could speak to that.

[Joel Ashley]

I posted a reply here earlier, but then went in and deleted it after reading comments from opposing views that made sense.  Basically, Gerald reflected my resulting point of view, to each his own, though I retained my inclination that the EB and brake lamps should coincide.  I could see both sides of the issue.  After more thought about the time I experienced severe brake fade in a small pickup on a 10+ mile downgrade, I realized the result is my tendency to keep my coach at or below posted truck speed when on steep or curvy inclines.  I certainly don't do 60+ mph on them.

The Speedy Gonzales approaching behind me deserves to know that I'm not at, and possibly nowhere near, his speed.  As Marty indicated, if you are doing it right, the EB should hold the coach at what you personally deem a safe speed for the nature of the road, without your touching, and unneccesarily wearing, the fade-susceptible service brake.  But counter to Marty's conclusion, given the above circumstance, that speed may be well below Speedy's, and illuminated brake lights add a measure of warning that I don't think should be ignored.  If circumstances are severe enough, I reckon flashers are in order, but I really think they're more useful to fully-loaded commercial semis.

I believe my lamps come on when the EB engages, and I guess my philosophy is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just my 2 cents-
Joel

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

In response to Joel's post about Speedy (I mean no disrespect Joel, just a comment)  if I'm going up hill, down hill or cruising on flat ground, if Speedy is speeding and I'm doing the speed limit, it is not my responsibility to warn him with brake lights or anything else. As to Phils comment on flashers, in my 30 years of driving semis I have never heard of a law in any state that requires (not saying there are not any) 4-way flashers be on when slowly going up hills. In my experience and my own practice, if I were going 25% slower or more  than the posted speed limit, I would have my 4-ways on to warn traffic coming up behind me. I think Gerald summed it up correctly with no wrong or right answer, it's personal preference with what we ourselves feel comfortable with. Marty