Fan Bracket Problem

[Larry Fisk]

Ed, it is totally possible that I miss understood what the owner of Radiator Supply House told me over the phone. He stated that he has an agreement with the new Monaco to build all their fan brackets for them and that they sent him drawings with part numbers so he could keep them supplied. He also said that he sells directly to the public and Monaco understands that. In other words he does not make these for Monaco's inventory exclusively. Therefore I am assuming he is their supplier for all these brackets. Also this bracket was actually ordered from Beaver Coach Sales so it looks like he is making them for their inventory also. As I said before I called BCS since they supplied this part for the repair shop. They told me to contact RSH because they supplied that part for them. So who knows how many coach's have this inferior bracket on their cooling fan motors.

[Larry Fisk]

Also Ed you are so right! I am overly paranoid of this happening again. It would really make me sick to have my brand new radiator devoured by another cooling fan disaster. I think I will call them again and ask about getting the channel iron boxed in, I want a "Fort Knox" fix for sure.

[Edward Buker]

Your 6317 photo looks like a pretty well made bracket but if that version has had fails also I would look to strengthen it. The photo of your fail looks like the arms were lighter L channel and the beefier bracket looks like U channel so it is a bit confusing what your original bracket was built like. Obviously the bracket that you ended up getting as a replacement is inadequate.

 Is the one pictured in 6317 your original bracket or one from another Patriot like yours and you know it would fit? If that was the case I would send them that photo and say you are looking for that bracket. They should have a print already and should be able to build you one. You could ask while they are at it could they futher strengthen that design as described in the post here or do thay have any recomendations for improvement?

If they will only build to the print I would order one of those brackets and then when I had it in hand I would take it to a good welding shop and have them make the improvements before it was to be mounted.

 There is a fine line here, where one persons opinion and what they would do, may not be what another person would do. Certainly follow your own wisdom here as long as you are comfortable regarding the outcome, after all it is your coach. Based on what BCS and RSH already supplied you it would seem that you have to take the bull by the horns somehow because they are not getting the job done.  Just trying to help and I feel your pain here....

Later Ed

[Larry Fisk]

Thank you Ed, I appreciate your thoughts and concern. I certainly want to make sure this never happens again but I'm not sure how much is enough when it comes to making a good, dependable bracket. I like your idea of taking it to a competent welder and getting their input. This is such an important component, it has to be done right or the consequences are really bad and expensive.

[Larry Fisk]

Also Ed photo 6317 is actually my friends bracket on his coach. I am assuming it is the same one mine had but it may not be. Several pictures of this bracket was also sent to RSH. But as you said that is no guarantee it is good, after all my original came apart.

[Edward Buker]

I am not sure how much is enough either, but the cost of adding reinforcement, the best we know how, is a trivial expense compared to another break. I'm going with the assumption here that the bracket I am getting is just like the one that already failed, until I know otherwise. That assumption would be raising the big red flag....

Guessing at the fail point (looks like it might be the arm to hub butt weld but things were pretty well torn up) from your old photos could help some. When you get the new in tact bracket and get a chance to study it a bit, it should become clearer where the weak points are. The welders that do a lot of repairs on car hauler trailers and trucks have a good sense about where things break and what can be done to strengthen things without adding a lot of weight and extra metal. You just want to be sure that any reinforcing metal structure not inhibit the motor mounting or airflow.

I do not know what is on the backside of the bolts that go to the fiberglass shroud attachement point. If that is just bolted through the fiberglass shroud and there were a couple of small washers there I would have four small metal plates made up to sandwich the fiberglass over a broader area, basically duplicate the rectangular piece that you have on the end of the new bracket, but I would have them grind and round the corners a bit to eliminate a stress point in the fiberglass. There may be some metal structure on the backside making that unnecessary but best to check it out and be sure.

 If you do modify the new bracket with a welder it would be good to post some before and after shots, so that someone else can inspect the weak points that were reinforced at intervals on their coach and hopefully catch a problem before failure. They would also have a photo of what was done to your bracket to take to a welder for modification. Good luck with all this Larry, may the force be with you....

Later Ed

[Jeremy Parrett]

Gerald,
  I will be at the coach tomorrow.  Thank you for the information.  By your description, I would assume we do not have to worry, but I will check it anyhow.

[Larry Fisk]

Ok, finally received the new bracket from Radiator Supply House. I think they got it right this time. Now I just need to get it installed and hopefully be done with this whole ordeal. Here are some photos of the "Fort Knox" bracket. I added some bracing of my own around the motor section just to make sure it is very strong. Thanks to Ed and all of you for your feedback. You are all the best!!

[Larry Fisk]

Here is a photo of the extra bracing I added after I received the bracket. I just want to make sure this one holds together a long time. One radiator and charge air cooler replacement is enough to last me a life time not to mention the strain on my finances!

[Jeff Watt]

Larry,

That should hold it together even over the stretch from Tok to Whitehorse  

Make sure the mounting bolts are strong enough ....

Jeff

[Edward Buker]

That certainly looks way better than those flat strap steel mount that you got as a replacement. Seems like the extra square tube around the hub should help stabilize it and reduce the amount it can vibrate. Looks like the square tube braces where the U channel ends on the arms so it should add strength to the system and be very strong. This is still a different design then the other bracket that was photographed it appears. The hub looks different where the U channel portions of the arms ends on the photo of the intact bracket. Makes you wonder how many designs are out there...

When you get it installed, you can warm up the engine and with the fan kicking in, rev the engine a bit varying the RPM and just see how stable the whole bracket fan system is as the RPM changes. If it all looks good, nothing out of balance, shaking the system then you know you have done your best. Time to hit the road and enjoy.

You know how many miles you had on the first one that failed. You can inspect this one for any cracks or issues as the miles accumulate. If you exceed the total miles of the first failure with no evidence of any issues with this bracket then you should get comfortable that all will be well. Keep us posted and good luck with this.

Later Ed

[Larry Fisk]

Thanks for all your input Ed. It was because of your suggestion I payed a welder to add the tube bracing around the motor bolt up. I thought about boxing in the channels to but this thing was already pretty heavy, I was afraid it might make it to heavy. I noticed the original has holes in the channel. Not sure why but I did not add it to the new one. I figured it must be to let the air circulate better but hopefully it will be ok without them. We'll see, they just called and said it's installed and ready to go!

[Larry Fisk]

Unbelievable!!! Got the new bracket installed and began checking it out when I got home. To my surprise the fan blades are only clearing the bracket arms by about 1/8 of an inch! The mechanic said everything looked good. This does not look good to me. What do you think? I just want this to end!!!!

[Larry Fisk]

The clearance does increase further out from the center. But boy it looks very close near the center.

[Edward Buker]

Larry,

It does look tight. I think the flex of the blade pulling air would flex away from the bracket but I have no idea what deflection toward the bracket would be possible under all conditions. It is a lot of money if it fails so you need to know for sure. Not sure if Monaco can provide a reference dimension.

In your 6317 JPG the bracket design looks different and it looks like maybe 1/2 inch spacing bracket to blade to an uncalibrated eye using the photo. Do you have access or know if the owner can measure the blade to bracket distance as well as the blade to radiator face distance for a reference on this coach with the original bracket in the photo that looks right.

Your new bracket looks strong enough and maybe there is a way to add more blade to bracket clearance by adding spacers, (washers) adjusting the mounting bolt lengths if necessary, between the fan motor and the bracket.

 I know you would like this to end but it seems like you have no choice but to dig a little deeper and see if you can determine what spacings are normal and then see how your current coach bracket mount dimension fits into the scheme of things. You may not have to duplicate the other brackets spacing but you may be able to get closer to the point that you are comfortable with the clearances.

I'm sorry that this has come up. When I get this level of frustration, if I can, I take a day or two off to clear my thoughts and try and set any emotion aside.
Once you have some reference dimensions and see what can be achieved with spacers that may be all it takes. If spacers cannot fix this, I am quite sure that your welder could move that center mounting hub away from the arms by cutting and welding what is needed. He should see it installed as it is now so that he could take measurements and and see where the welds and cuts would fit and not interfere with the mounting of the motor/fan assembly.

I know this is painful Larry but you are almost there and the consequences of another fail are much worse to live through...

Later Ed