Author Topic: Hydro Hot Service  (Read 17413 times)

Bill Jourdain

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Hydro Hot Service
« on: August 13, 2012, 06:43:15 PM »
We have owned our 2002 Monterey for about three weeks. This coach has a Hydro Hot system installed. Having never used this type of system before I am not familiar with it's service needs, but I have read that it should have periodic maintenance performed.  I would appreciate any advice regarding, (1) The annual service needs of this system, and, (2) recommendations for service facilities to work on this system in the north Georgia or southeastern Tennessee areas (Atlanta to Chattanooga or Knoxville). Thanks.

George H. Wall

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 07:02:57 PM »
Bill, I have used Camping World in Oakwood, Ga., right outside  of Gainesville, with good results. Yearly service is recommend, according to usage, changing nozzle and filter is the usual service.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 05:38:42 PM by 5 »

Karl Welhart

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 11:59:27 PM »
Bill,

Annual service is very important to keep it running correctly.  You may want to try it yourself, not difficult...
Karl and Nancy Welhart, F36017
2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP (2014-current)
2002 Patriot (2002-2014)
1997 Monterey (1997-2002)
Niceville, Florida

Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 04:08:18 PM »
The Aqua Hot or Hydro Hot are unique and common only in diesel pushers.  The guts come from Germany with a computer.  It was originally designed for boats with a brand name of Webasto.   It is then adapted by Aqua-Hot, with a second computer, to work in motorhomes.  There are three or more pumps, some check valves, a mixing valve and multiple sensors, let alone the thermostats that can run both it and the air conditioners of yet a different brand.  

You can replace a typical RV propane furnace for about $500.  If you need to replace your Hydro/Aqua Hot, it will cost about $8,000.  The German computer is sealed in a little metal box, has three mechanical relays in it along with electronics.   If one of those relays starts to stick, the part is $900.  It is that complex!  

The basic check routine check is to see if the exhaust is clear after the first few puffs, the overflow tank has coolant between the marks, the coolant level in the overflow tank goes down when you shut it off and up when it is hot, that you get reasonably hot water and heat from all the vents.  

If you need to add a little coolant, use the right stuff.  Yours is old enough it probably has plain automotive antifreeze.  Newer ones need expensive "boiler coolant".   The coolant subject has lots of experts, but until you compare you serial number to the list of "old" vs "new" you can get it wrong.  

Basic annual service is the replacement of the burner nozzle, fuel filter, internal cleaning and adjustment of the ignitors.   And it is not that difficult.  But, if the tech has not been to Hydro/Aqua Hot school, I would not let them touch it.

In nine years I've had half a dozen repairs.  Three are memorable because they were expensive, the techs had not gone to school and there work needed post repair attention.   In one case, the business was on the list, but the tech had quit and taken his tools with him!  (That's the repair that ended in a new $900 Webasto computer, with mechanical relays.)

The website listing techs that have gone to school and are "approved" is http://www.aquahot.com/Service-Help/Service-Locations.aspx .  On that list is BAC member (and Beaver owner) Orman Claxton.  The website provides his number as 206-660-9893.  He has been known to insist that members call him for advice.  You'll see him at some of the bigger Beaver rallies.    

I like Camping World and shop there.  Unless the specific store is on the list, I would never take a Hydro Hot to them.  

To drive my point home, I met a camper with a new to him motorhome when I was a camp host in a state park.  He asked if I could help get hot water for his wife's shower.    I tried to help until I noticed water running from the bottom of his motorhome.  I asked him how he winterized it and got, "same as every other RV I've ever owned."   He wouldn't talk to me the rest of the weekend after I told him the repair was going to cost around $8k!  

Bill Jourdain

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 04:25:44 PM »
Thanks for all of the helpful advice and comments. While I am fairly handy with some things, this is not one of them. I will track down the nearest authorized service center and head that way.

I am curious about winterization of this system, especially based on Bill's response. The Hydro Hot manual really does not suggest anything other than the standard water system winterization.  What steps are required to properly winterize a Hydro Hot system?

Thanks.

Bill

Louis Williams

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 05:22:41 PM »
I have had my Hydro Hot serviced by Alliance Coach in Wildwood, FL without problems. They are currently a Monaco & Holiday Rambler dealer. This was previously the eastern Monaco Service Center. They are one of our sponsors. Telephone # 352-330-3800. This facility is located 5 miles east of I-75 on State Route 44 in Wildwood whics ic about 25 miles south or Ocala.

Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2012, 05:51:51 PM »
Quote from: Bill Jourdain
Thanks for all of the helpful advice and comments. While I am fairly handy with some things, this is not one of them. I will track down the nearest authorized service center and head that way.

I am curious about winterization of this system, especially based on Bill's response. The Hydro Hot manual really does not suggest anything other than the standard water system winterization.  What steps are required to properly winterize a Hydro Hot system?

Thanks.

Bill

Bill

The problem is with three methods that don't work.  In other RVs it can be done by (1) complete draining or (2) blowing out the system with compressed air.  Those won't get the water out of the low points on the heat exchange coils.   If you (3) plug in and leave the electric element on, it will protect against freezing but not if the element fails or the power goes out -- like happens in a winter storm.

The only way you can be 100% sure with a Aqua/Hydro Hot equipped motorhome is to pump the system full of pink RV water system antifreeze.   To get everything, including the washer/dryer, mine takes  slightly over 4 gallons.  

Of course the best way is to winter in Arizona.

Bill (the other one)


Edward Buker

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2012, 05:54:01 PM »
Bill,

I'm not sure if this is exactly the same for a Hydro Hot as it is for an Aqua Hot which I have. The burners do not share the same technology, but in general, you can tell a lot about these units and when a service might be needed by the exhaust. How much smoke is apparent, should be none except maybe a puff at start up, if it ignites immediately and never misfires, and cuts off as it is supposed to, and if it sounds smooth and even as a tuned burner should. An hour meter would also be a big help here given many owners do not put many hours on these units. When they say a yearly service that could mean 500hrs for one unit and 50hrs for another. Mine does not get many hours, maybe 50 a year, and I will probably go three years between burner service unless there is a sign of exhaust smoke or a misfire issue.

 From what I have seen I would not service by interval if there was a way to do it by hours. I would also opt for more hours on my unit if it was running well and wait until I had an expert service person is handy to do the job. Many of these units come out running worse after a service when a true expert who works on these units all the time is not available.

I have been exercising my burner once a month whether I am camping or not which helps keep it functioning well. There is speculation that the oil at the nozzle orfice can dry out and the residue can then partially block the orfice and can also affect the pattern of the burner which dictates how well it maintains its tolerances to the ignition electrodes. The flow at the nozzle provides a major component of the fuel air ratio so it needs to be clean. These are some of the smallest orfice sizes in the industry so keeping the fuel and the nozzle orfice clean is a requirement.

I do think things that run a bit have an advantage here.... I do my own service on the burner and it is not overly difficult on the Aqua Hot side of things and I think the Hydro Hot might be even easier yet.

Later Ed

Bill Jourdain

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2012, 06:00:08 PM »
Thanks, Ed.  I'm not sure when this system was last serviced, but in the three weeks I've owned the coach I've tested it and noticed several misfires and a lot of black smoke when it finally ignites.  It therefore appears that it is due for service before I use it much more.

Thanks.

Bill

Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2012, 06:09:06 PM »
Quote from: Edward Buker
......The burners do not share the same technology.....
  I think they are the same.  Based on a couple of AquaHot sponsored rally seminars and conversations with AquaHot techs, the systems were primarily the same except for a couple of things.  First, the HydroHot has a smaller coolant tank that makes it a little harder to get both coach heat and hot water at the same time.  So, they  have a circuit that makes it  one or the other.  That circuit can be "jumpered" and, unless it is winter in the arctic, works pretty well doing both.  Second, the HydroHot is not likely to have an extra pump installed to warm a cold engine, but it can be added if you live in arctic climates.  

There was a design change to both somewhere around 2004 that changed the boiler such that non toxic coolant needed to be used.

There was also a name change.  Originally the HydroHot and AquaHot were made by Vehicle Systems.  They apparently didn't have all the rights to that name that they needed.  So they changed the company name to AquaHot and started differentiating the smaller models from the larger models by calling them all AquaHots, but with different model numbers.

Bill


Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 06:23:18 PM »
Quote from: Bill Jourdain
.....  I'm not sure when this system was last serviced, but in the three weeks I've owned the coach I've tested it and noticed several misfires and a lot of black smoke when it finally ignites.  It therefore appears that it is due for service before I use it much more.

Thanks.

Bill

It might not be "misfires".  It can sound like it is running even when it is not burning.  It is due to how it gets read to burn and purges itself between cycles.  Nor is it supposed to run with continuous burning.  It burns to heat the fluid and the flame stops when it thinks the fluid is hot enough.   Then, the hot fluid warms the air or water until the fluid is too cold.  Then it lights up again, typically with a sputter sound and a puff or two.

If you can stand the heat or don't mind running a lot of hot water down the drain, run it for several hours.  See if you can work it hard enough to run a few gallons of fresh diesel through it.  My understanding is that there is a valve (or two) that can get sticky from lack of use causing minor drips.  So, on start up, there may be a little extra diesel in the burner that causes some burping and belching.  

That said, it is normal to start up with a little smoke and a little sputtering.  

My wife, early on, pointed out how clever the Beaver engineers were at putting the furnace exhaust outlet where the smoke and fumes come from below and adjacent to here bedroom window.  Even with the window closed, she smells it seeping through the cracks and slide seals.  Anybody parked next to us (in a politely equipped propane powered RV) gets to smell it too.   Consequently we have adapted a Gen-Turi generator exhaust extension to the HydroHot.  Now the stink and carbon monoxide goes mostly skyward and away from the bedroom and nice neighbors.

The other Bill


« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 06:33:58 PM by 149 »

Jim Shaw

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 11:26:09 PM »
Does anyone know where I can get the directions on changing the nozzle? Mine is working fine but has started to smoke a lot.
Thanks Jim

Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 01:01:28 AM »
Quote from: Jim Shaw
Does anyone know where I can get the directions on changing the nozzle? Mine is working fine but has started to smoke a lot.
Thanks Jim
I sent the service manual that applies to mine to Tim Bently who put it on the BAC main site under "Coach Assist".  

Aqua Hot puts their manuals on their website, if you want one that applies to yours.  

Another source is a website run by Roger Burke who has a retirement career servicing and sellling parts for AquaHots.  He has some guides and other downloadable service information.   Roger helped me a couple times before I met BAC member Orman Claxton.

To change the nozzle, you move some wires and hoses out of the way, remove three bolts holding the burner together and take a couple wrenches to the nozzle to get it off.  

Bill

Jim Shaw

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 01:07:22 AM »
Thanks Bill, I will check the web site and download the manual if it is available.

Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Service
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 03:41:44 AM »
Quote from: Jim Shaw
Thanks Bill, I will check the web site and download the manual if it is available.
Look here:  http://www.aquahot.com/Library.aspx