BRAKES question on cost/ my woeful tale

[Jill Stevens]

We have a 2001 Beaver Patriot that is experiencing hiccups, lots of hiccups.  We just had the generator pulled, all sides taken off and they replaced any part that might go out in our foreseeable future at the Cummins/Onan facility in Vegas (parts weren't bad, but the labor? ouch)... Overheated and shut down on the drive home.  Now it will have a re-done radiator and gosh, both u-joints need replaced.  Ok.  Meanwhile, sure, please do fluid changes and undercarriage service while its there. Oh wait, you need front brakes. Really? We just replaced the right front bearing in October and had both examined, wouldn't the mechanic have recommended brakes if they were needed??? Well, a cracked left rotar was  found on undercarriage inspection ... hm.

So, (finally) MY QUESTION: about how much should a front brake job cost (how many hours should it take??).... We knew it would need some things fixed when we bought it but we really didn't expect much as it was a gently used coach.  We have only taken it on 5 short trips in 2 years.

Our coach is currently at Freightliner North Las Vegas.  Thanks for reading and any input is very much appreciated!

[Tom and Pam Brown]

Jill,
First, to protect yourself from unneeded services ask them to show you the needed parts.  Then ask them to show you the new part and compare.

Secondly, on your services make sure you watch and ensure all undercarriage grease points are done. Check the chassis manual. The brakes must be lubricated with a special grease, make sure they have the clay based grease, this will ensure they retract when released and will not wear the pads out prematurely.  Disc brakes are not common on trucks yet so some technicians do not understand how they work. Ask to see the technicians certificate from meritor that says he/she can do the work.


Finally, ask for a copy of the warranty from the dealer.

You were very smart to have the gen parts replaced while it was out.

[Karl Welhart]

Jill,

Wow, so many issues.  First, the front "brake job" is a very loaded question.  Depends on how much is going to need to be replaced.  What caused your right front bearing needing to be replaced, why did you left rotor crack and how many other parts did they service?  Did they find out what was causing the bearing to go bad?  Brake problems are very common on your model coach and especially on a "gently used coach".  

I think you have some major problems with the brake system and others on the forum can speak about specific solutions.  In my experience, I would replace all calipers, rotors, pads and do a completed flush of the brake fluid (replace with DOT 4), be sure to have them check the bearings and seals.  Then fill the front bearings with synthetic gear oil.  I would guess the cost would be $2,500-$3,000.00.

Karl

[Edward Buker]

Jill,

It is very hard for us to know whether a shop is going beyond what is needed or not. Part of the story is the reputation of the shop and how you feel in working with the service manager there. If you have a good feeling then you have to work with your instincts and if not you can go get a second opinion on the issues the first shop has found. You can just say that you have to make another appointment for the work, do that, get the second opinion and either cancel the appointment or go to it based on your findings. If you are not going to do this type work yourselves, in the long run it is best to find a good shop, develop a relationship and stick with them. If you are repeat business they will more than likely treat you right.

Very specifically, one question you can ask regarding the rotors, do they exceed the cracking criteria in the Meritor Service Manual or not. Some cracking is allowed, larger cracks are not. Brakes are one of the areas that you want to know for sure are in good service. If the pads are well worn it would be wise to get those serviced. They should be able to tell you if you have half of the original thickness of pad left or a third.

These coaches go through spells where it seems like they are trouble and then you get through the bugs and they are fine for awhile. In the end they are not like cars, they do need more care given the nature of the beast and all of the systems involved. It does take some getting used to...

Later Ed

[Gary Winzenburger]

We are finding this out Ed with our 1997 Marquis. They're more like planes than cars and we're quickly realizing there has to be a routine schedule of inspections and replacements/repairs that must occur in order to keep these wonderful coaches running and operating like they should. It doesn't manner if they're used for one, small trip or constantly. I'm very glad there's a forum that will help us with this!

Gary

[Richard And Babs Ames]

We did a brake job on our 1997 Patriot including turning the front rotors and replacing the rears. Seems we were a bit shy of $1600

[Gerald Farris]

Jill,
Like Ed stated, if you are not going to preform your own coach servicing, you have to trust the shop that you are using. If you do not trust the shop totally, look for another shop. I have seen many technicians who only find the "problems" that they make the most money "repairing". Therefore, the only thing that was repaired was their bank account.

There is also the problem of the "shotgun" diagnosis procedure. In this procedure everything that is related to a problem is replaced, therefore little to no time in spent in diagnosing the problem. In this repair procedure, the cost to the customer goes up, the shop makes more money, and the need for highly skilled technicians is reduced.

I can not say that either one of these scenarios exist at the shop that you are using, but they are common problems in the automotive repair industry. These problems are more common in shops were the technicians are paid on commission or in large shops were entry level technicians (trainees) are assigned to jobs that are above their skill level so that the shop makes more money since they charge you the full $100+ labor rate even though they are paying the technician only $10 to $15.

Gerald      

[Mandy Canales]

[size=14][/size]Jill...Finding a reputable motor home repair shop would depend upon references you can get from those motor home owners living in your area.  There are several owners of motor homes in the Pahrump, Las Vegas, and Mesquite area who you could call on and get their opinion on repair shops.  Jerry/Sharon Pattison don't live in Vegas any more but the rest are OK.  I think I would get an opinion from Mike Randolph as he has lived there for several years.  Good Luck.  If you lived in my area I'd refer you to Bob's Tire here in Victorville.
Mandy

[Randy Perry]

I went to Pete's Roadside Service in Santa Ana, CA. for (2) new front tires and after they pulled the wheels off, the guy says both front rotors were cracked! I looked at them right then and there and said "Yup, they are" (2) new rotors and pads cost me $1509.  Backs were fine!

[Jill Stevens]

Thanks to everyone who took time to respond.  We are hoping to pick up the coach tomorrow.  Mandy, thanks for the recommendation. To me Victorville isn't that far away (we pass through every time we go visit our children in Downey, CA.  I will keep Bob's tire in mind as we plan to replace all the tires in the next couple months.  

First Extended Warranty is picking up some of our costs for the repairs that have been done so that is a plus.  Our warranty expires in April so I will be investigating a new one and saw a thread on the forum with recomendation.  Love the BAC forums and group!  Thanks again to all of you!!
Jill

[Roland DuBree]

Got to learn to use pack break for most of the braking and les of the foot pedal.  2001's seem to have a problem with breaks and over heating. My 2001 just had all new calipers, pads and front rotors. My rotors were creaked too - to much over heating and to much heat. Breaks actually would lock up.   I was lucky with cost. Found a break and alignment shop to do the work if I bought and gave him the parts. My total cost was little over $1200.00.  When I bought parts I also bought calipers with metal pistons (coach had phenolic- plastic) plastic is no good. They heat up, swell and lock up brakes.  At times I had to pull to side of road cool them down before I could move on.

[Joel Ashley]

Yes Roland, you should be using the exhaust or "pac brake" on long hills at least.  Wheel brakes are spendy to maintain and easily worn by your coach's weight, as you found out.

Joel

[neil omalley]

Jill: If you are going to replace your tires, be sure to look into either the FMCA or Monaco Club plans via the Michelin Corporate plans.  If you decide on Michelins, the savings could be substantial. Of course, the Bob's tire or Les Shwab or your favorite local tire guy would be out of the picture since you would have to buy at a center which handled Michelin corporate accounts.

[Roland DuBree]

I use the pac break even for red light stops on the road and in town - not just for going down hills and grades and have been for years!

[Keith Oliver]

before purchasing our coach I put an offer in on an 11 yr old coach with a pacbrake and had it professionally inspected.  the inspector told me the brakes were original.  they had over 50000 miles of driving, but as the coach was pac-brake equipped, the inspector expected them to have little wear.  They looked to me like they were new.  the rotors were smooth, the pads were 1/2 inch thick still.
When looking at the coach we bought, I found the same conditions and the seller claimed that the brakes were original.  
I have continued to use the pac-brake as the primary brake with the wheel brakes as the emergency brakes.  I expect many more years out of the wheel brakes.