dead chassis battery

[Terry Henricks]

Chassis battery goes dead after setting with shore power. Do I need inverter on to keep it charged? Also 'will electric heaters work without burner being on? Thank you Terry

[Gerald Farris]

Terry,
The inverter needs to be charging the house batteries to keep the chassis batteries charged also. If the inverter is charging your house batteries, and your chassis batteries are not being charged, you need to check for a malfunction in the "Bird" system.

Your Aqua Hot system will heat the coach and/or domestic water supply with the electric element only. However, if it gets very cold outside, you will need to run the burner to furnish enough heat to adequately heat the coach because the burner will deliver a lot more heat than the electric element only will.

Gerald  

[Terry Henricks]

Gerald,I'm talking when parked with electric heaters are you?

[Bill Sprague]

"Also 'will electric heaters work without burner being on?"

Yes, but with very limited capability.

The Hydro/Aqua Hot electric element uses about 10 or 12 amps.  If I remember right that converts to about 5,000 BTUs. That is the same as a bathroom heater and you are not going to get a lot of heat for a full sized motorhome.    The diesel burner, if I remember right is about 50,000 BTUs.  

Some AquaHots have two elements and produce more heat,  but won't do well on less than a 50 amp hookup.

[Gerald Farris]

Terry,
I am talking about the electric heating element in the Aqua Hot unit. Not electric space heaters.

Gerald

[Bill Borden]

Hi Gerald and Larry,

OK I also have a chassis battery charging problem, both the chassis and the house batteries are dead.  The coach was parked outdoors without shore power.

The batteries check out OK just in a need of a charge.

I was under the impression the Solar system will float charge both sets of batteries.  But what I have read it seems the Solar system only charges the house side. Doesn't the Solar charging system charge the Chassis batteries through the Echo charger?

When plugged into shore power.  The inverter/charger (Xantrex Freedom 458) charges the House batteries and the shore power powers the Echo charger which charges the chassis batteries.  Is that correct?

Right now I am concerned with the health of the Solar system and the Echo charger and fuse.  So that's what I am checking now.

I really just want to be clear on how the solar battery charging system works.  Any suggestions on trouble shooting the Solar system?

Thanks,

Bill Borden
2000 Patriot Thunder

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

Bill,

The Echo Charger will start to charge the Chassis batteries after the House batteries are fully charged.  Because the House batteries are dead, the Echo Charger will not charge the Chassis batteries.  You need to get the House batteries up to near full charge before the Echo Charger will start to work.  The Echo Charger will function regardless of the charging source.  The solar panels alone will not be enough to bring all your batteries back up.  You may need to charge each House battery seperately to bring them all back up.

Larry

[Bill Borden]

Thank you Larry,

So if the house batteries go down below the voltage low level then they have to be recharged before the chassis batteries can start to charge.  so I need to check an see if I have a bad hole in one of the house batteries, that may be the reason for the house batteries  losing their charge.

I did charge up the chassis batteries and presently charging the house group.

You have cleared up the mystery...

Regards,  

Bill

[Edward Buker]

Bill,

Page nine explains the operation of the Echo charger. It will not come on unless the house batteries achieve 13V from some charging source. Your solar panels are not reaching that level given the charge state that you are getting.

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Accessories/Auxiliary-Battery-Charger/Echo-charge-OwnerGuide(445-0204-01-01).pdf

Later Ed

[Joel Ashley]

I don't have a coach with the Echo charger, Bill, so I have no experience there.  And I don't know how "powerful" your specific solar setup is.  But I can say that as long as both my chassis and house master switches are off, my single solar panel easily keeps both battery banks charged while it's in storage.  If we have too many overcast or rainy Western Oregon days in the winter, I watch in case I need to nudge things a bit by plugging in to shore power for awhile.

So make sure everything is switched off, otherwise unobvious parasitic drains can take things down more over 24 hours than daytime sun can build it up.  Also be aware that once a starting (chassis) battery has gone to zip, it won't ever be the same again.  You might also consider measuring voltage at the batteries on a sunny day with and without a blanket over the panel, to see if the controller is actually working.

Joel

[George Gaston]

I am also having the problem of the chassis batteries not charging. I have a 2007 Contessa with the Magnum Inverter.
Gerald, I am not familiar with what a "BIRD" system is. Would you be kind enough to explain what I should be looking for?

Thanks
George Gaston

[Gerald Farris]

George,
A "Bird" system ( Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay ( BIRD ) in your coach is what isolates the chassis and house from each other, but allows them to be recharged from a single source. If the house batteries are being charged by the inverter, the "Bird" module should close the "Big Boy" solenoid after adequate voltage is reached, and this will tie both battery banks together. Therefore, the chassis batteries will also be recharged at anytime the house batteries are recharged.

If the house batteries are charging, and the chassis batteries are not being charged, check the input voltage at the "Bird" module. If the input voltage is within specifications, and the "Bird" module is not sending an activation signal to the "Big Boy" solenoid, your "Bird" module is bad, but if it is sending an activation signal to the "Big Boy", and the "Big Boy" is not completing the connection, your "Big Boy" if defective.

Gerald    

[Joel Ashley]

George, the "Bird" and "Big Boy" should be found in the battery bay behind a gray door between the master switches.  On mine the Bird relay is mounted on the inside of that door, and the Big Boy solenoid is center front, with banks of high amp fuses behind.

Joel

[Robert Mathis]

Make sure you check the connections to the BIRD, they are just crimped onto the connectors. I was having problems with my chassis batteries going dead while plugged in to shore power, and found the ground wire to the BIRD had come loose. Once re-connected, everything worked fine.

[Bill Borden]

Thanks for all the info, I suspect one of the house batteries has a bad hole. I borrowed a load tester from a buddy to check them.

I checked the voltage on echo charger, but not yet checked the bird and the big boy. On my Beaver the panel is mounted on the ceiling of the battery compartment. Not an easy place to troubleshoot.

Is there a circuit diagram for this charging circuit out there. Is there a copy i can get?  When talking to Bend in the past, I was told that most of the drawings and specs were dumped by Monaco not too long after they bought Beaver.

I also plan on checking the output of the solar charger according to the display, it's. not putting out very much juice.

Thanks again for everyones comments,

Bill