My New Inverter Install

[Gary Wolfer]

I have a 98 Beaver Patriot Monticello and the Xantrex Freedom 20D inverter quit charging the batteries. I am installing a new Magnum 2812 pure sine wave inverter and gathered these parts: I purchased the inverter, a breaker box for the outbound circuits to the Main Panel with a 30 amp breaker . The current will be separated into runs because although the magnum is designed to run one hot line in and one hot line out the old Freedom was designed as one hot in and two hot out. I was going to do the work myself but not being very electrically sure of myself I decided to have Guaranty RV Super Center in Jct City Oregon do the work. I got here this morning and the first two hours they were trying to figure out how to install it. I had to tell them why I had to separate the lines and the additional breaker box with a 30 amp and 2 20 amp breakers. They intended to add the new wire from the inverter to the remote but I told them they could rewire one end and the old telephone wire would work fine. After they went over it together they decided they would have to run the new wire to the remote because Magnum would not warranty the inverter without using the new wire.

Also my old freedom 20D was shorter and narrower than the new Magnum 2812 and it was mounted in a shelf in the back of a basement bay. So we decided we would have to hang it under the existing shelf because the shelf was made of flat bar and was 2" too narrow. It may end up being mounted upside down. Which is not the best but will not make any difference in the way it works. The coach is in the back of the building and outside the shop so I will be able to take some photos of work in progress. Hopefully this will help others in the future. I will update this thread as it goes on. Looks like 8 hours labor some today and some tomorrow.

[Gary Wolfer]

They rerun a new phone wire from the inverter to the remote I told them they could use the old wire by rewiring a new end on the cable but the shop foreman said Magnum would void the warranty if old cable was used. They took 3 hours just to get it thru the right windshield post. Appeared to be a waste of time to me. The first two hours I was here they worked up a quote. Here is a photo of the remote spagetti. When they ran the battery temp unit they had to go thru the bin with the black and gray tanks on the passenger side then thru the wall at the frame rail.

[Gary Wolfer]

May have some good news. The inverter guy came by at the end of the day to make sure we had power tonight and looked at the main 120v Panel and said it looks to him like this coach already has a sub panel built in next to the main panel. He made sure we had power before we left as we have not been plugged in all day and it is 91 degrees here. We were running on batteries all day and they unplugged the old remote and there was no power because the remote was gone and the inverter switch was off. He turned the switch on and plugged into 50 amp power and now we have air conditioning and power again for the night. We may be done early tomorrow. Woo Hoo.  Here is a photo of the main panel above the bed.

[Edward Buker]

Gary,

That is primarily an empty box with some strips in it if I remember right related to 12V wiring. You cannot get the wiring that comes out of the bay inverter circuits back through that box readily and it would be a waste of time. The new box needs to be in the bay to be efficient from a wiring viewpoint.

Later Ed

[Jerry Emert]

In mine the right side of the box has the 12 volt fuses.

[Gary Wolfer]

ED this guy's name is Zane He came to Guaranty when Monaco left Coburg. He did all the new inverter installs for Monaco and worked there for 12 years. He will check the panel this morning and wire it the same as he has done the monacos. I will keep on top of it I have the box and breakers with me. I also called Magnum on the 400A fuse. The tech told me that was the fuse I should be using. They will install it here. Jerry the blue breakers you see in the photo are the ones he was talking about. You are right under the panel on the right are the 12v fuses. I will make posts as we go along here.

[Larry Williams]

Jerry the blue breakers you see in the photo are the ones he was talking about. You are right under the panel on the right are the 12v fuses. I will make posts as we go along here.

Is he sure that breaker comes FROM the inverter rather than feeding it? That looks like it is fed from the 50 AMP breaker. Remember the discussion about needing to protect the circuits AFTER the inverter.

The blue breakers look like non-inverter loads. The refrigerator and washer/dryer are not usually fed by the inverter.

[Edward Buker]

Gary,

Magnum recommends the 400 amp fuse because their unit could in fact pull 400 amps without being damaged. It may also be that the 12V wiring size and the original inverter that was installed was sized for a 300amp fuse and that is already in place which would also work just fine. Remember the X10 rule I mentioned, that works in reverse also, so 300 amps DC fuse would provide close to 30 amps at 120V. You can add the 400 amp fuse, the original wiring should be able to handle that without fusing, in other words the fuse opens before the wire overheats even at 400amps. The reason we were looking for the original install fuse was to not add the 400amp fuse if there already was one, like a 300 amp one in place because the 400 amp would then serve no purpose. That option is between you and Zane to sort out. Magnum is right that the DC input size needs to be fused with no more than a 400 amp fuse.

Gary, I understand that Zane installed all the inverter systems, but it was per some design plan that was derived by some electrician, electrical engineer, or per a manufacturers layout of how it should be done. With all due respect to Zane, following what you have done in the past does not always fit what you are currently being presented with. I can assure you that the AC output side of the new inverter needs a 120V 30 amp AC main breaker and also individual AC circuit breakers for each of the two circuits that went to your old Freedom 20.  The individual 15 or 20 amp 120V breakers  would be sized to the wire size as discussed. This is to protect the Inverter output side while inverting. I can see no rational reason to involve any AC box in the rear of the coach which would concern me if he was heading that way it were mine. All of our Beavers that do not have internal AC breakers in the inverter are wired this way with a small seperate AC breaker box in the ceiling of the bay near the inverter.

Later Ed

[Gary Wolfer]

OK The tech is working on the install right now. We are doing it the way we originally planned with the breaker box inside the basement. The inverter wire from the main panel to inverter in then a #10-2 wire from the Magnum to the outbound breaker box. The Breaker box will have 3 breakers a 30Amp single pole breaker and 2 20A single pole breakers. The wire on the outbound from the box is 12-2 wiring. He will mount it beside the inverter on the back wall of the basement bin. The magnum inverter is two inches wider and 2 inches longer than the Freedom 20D so we will have to hang the new inverter below the existing shelf the old inverter sat on.(to save money we may hang it upside down and I will be able to change it if I wish later.) We have to move it a little further out from the wall as well because it vents on the back. I will bring more photos later as well as a suprise. (by the way ED He may mount the new breaker box behind and to the inside of the cabinet next to the Power panel in the bedroom instead of beside the inverter. I will let him make that decision. It would be easier access. )

[Joel Ashley]

Our factory Magnum is hung upside down from the bay ceiling, Gary;  it's commonly done and I wouldn't worry about ever changing it.  It would have been good if they could have mounted yours higher though, rather than hanging from that lower shelf position and more in the way when loading the bay with cargo.

We have 3/0 wire between inverter and a 300 amp fuse before it's distributed to individually fused and breakered devices, but from their advice Magnum obviously knows your model is capable of tolerating more.

Mounting the 30 amp box in the same compartment as the 50 would be a great convenience - you only need to go to one place when things go awry, and it won't require crawling into a bay, perhaps on a dark and rainy night.

Joel

[Gary Wolfer]

Joel they found the Fuse between the positive battery terminal and the inverter. It is mounted on the wall behind the house battery bank and the slide out. It is barely accessable and only from underneath. After reading Ed's last post and a question from the inataller we decided to keep the old fuse which is a 250A fuse that has a reset button. I will hang onto the 400A fuse for possible later use. He installed the inverter sideways and upside down so the battery cables are on the left toward the battery bank and since the 2812 vents from the back it will run cooler instead of being too close to the back wall. The connection plate will be facing the outside so easily rewired and the reset breaker is easy to reach as well. He is installing the sub panel with one 30 and two 20 single pole breakers to the left of the inverter against the back wall so the wires will reach My only regret is Beaver installing the inverter where they did instead of a separate cabinet like my old Safari had with just the inverter, the transfer switch and two GFCI plugs. The cabinet was behind the drive wheels and just in front of the propane genset. Here is a photo of the inverter install before the sub panel.

[Gary Wolfer]

Here is a final photo of the work. Ed they did it the way you said with the parts I had. The sub panel was mounted to the left of the inverter as you can see in the photo the Inverter is actually just below the frame rails with the sub breaker panel to the left and the transfer switch on the left wall. The only thing i do not like is where they originally installed the inverter and transfer switch in the first place. Most full timers fill the bins front to back and if a breaker was tripped you have to drag everything out of the way. My Safari was a better design with everything in a separate compartment. I will take a photo of that and post it after while.

[Edward Buker]

Looks like a good install and you should be good to go for a long time. Those breakers should not trip if all is well so it is not like you will have to go in there often. The 250 amp DC breaker should be good but what you might want to do is have a 300 amp breaker on board that fits the current location that Beaver used for the installed. Because the new Magnum can charge the batteries with higher current then the old Freedom 20 it stands to reason that you could possibly have a 250 amp breaker trip if the house batteries were very depleted and took a high current charge or you had a heavy load on the inverter. Only experience will tell you what the highest DC draw or charge will be.

You could then go to a 300 amp breaker next and if that never trips then you are set, if it trips then I would replace the breaker with the 400amp fuse that you have in hand. You get the idea, you are matching the fuse size to the max load with a little margin. 250 amps DC will provide about 25 amps at 120V with the inverter which is a little light fuse wise, 300 amp might be a better fit but it all depends on your usage. Here is a 300amp well rated version of a DC breaker that is inexpensive if you need it.

http://www.amazon.com/300-Circuit-Breaker-Replace-12vdc/dp/B007AUPY6I/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_i

I bet you are glad to have this project behind you.

Later Ed

[Gary Wolfer]

I sure am glad to have this problem wrapped up. (almost) I went out to the battery compartment this morning and found out I could not pull the battery tray out because they took the battery temp wire and ran it from the inverter thru the next bay which holds the gray and black water tanks below the toilet and thru the middle of that bay then out the other side and over the wheel wells near the outer skin of the coach then into the battery bay across the middle of it and hooked it to the negative post on the house batteries. Problem is there is no slack in the cable.  I looked for a coil of extra wire but there was none and I called them and ask the mechanics and they said there was none so we talked about it and decided I could just put a butt connector for a phone cable and about a 5' extension of phone cable then reroute it around the battery tray so I have some slack. I think it probably will work but do not know how to test it. The shop foreman was in agreement with you Ed as he said the battery has to be 105 degrees before it would shut down and not going to happen at least here. I will reroute it anyway. Also there was an ANL fuse between the isolator and the batteries so he said he had to use the 400A fuse in place of that. I looked at the placement and the center wire from the generator on the isolator went along with a hot Battery cable to one side and a hot battery cable to the other side of the fuse so I assume that broke the cable between the alternator and the battery bank with the 400A fuse. Seems like it should have been between the inverter and battery bank but maybe it was Maybe the inverter wire and wire from the alternator were on one side and the battery bank on the other side. I could not see where the cables went but both were positive.

Went up on the roof to check out my next project of coating the roof before winter and when looking around I realized the upper superslide seals were dry rotted. So I ordered new seal material might as well I already did the bottom slide seal.

[Joel Ashley]

Cheez, Gary.  I think you, Larry and Laura Dedrick, and Jerry Emert are all gonna need a vacation soon!  

-Joel