Urgently need help: Air levelers depleting

[DeeNoyer]

Forgive my ignorance in terminology as a newbie I'll try my best to accurately describe the problem we are having. 
Planning to leave for Yellowstone then onto a family Reunion on Saturday.  Called all local RV shops, can't fit us in

On the way home last night from picking up the RV, the driver side lost air in the leveling system.

Husband manually filled them and it held overnight, but as soon as you place the coach in drive, it deflates and the buzzers go off.  The lights and buzzers ring in both the Air and hydraulic jacks.

We called Beaver Motor Coach Sales in Bend but we have not heard back from them.

One San Jose repair shop said it sounds like a controller panel issue and said to call the company to see if there is a bypass.

I'm calling upon your expertise, fellow Beaver owners.  Please help if you can.  Thank you

(I'll withold my emotion at the prospect of missing our family reunion and pray there is an answer for us!)


Dee

[Keith Moffett]

Hi Dee and welcome to the club.
Before anyone can help we need to know some things.
year and model of coach, type of levelers ie hydraulic level (jacks) and air level and air ride.

If you look at the driver console what does the label on the jack control say?  HWH, RVA, SMC
Have you checked the fluid level for the hydraulic jacks?

If this is a travel day for Gerald or Dave and some of our more informed folks, a better response could take awhile so be patient.  This will work out and you will be OK.
Keith

[Edward Buker]

Dee,

Is the dash air warning alarm going off that indicates low air in the brake/suspension system or is this just the leveling system alarms? If you start the engine and build air in the coach air tanks/systems, does it hold air pressure in neutral and then when you press drive,  it then starts to dump the air? Trying to sort out if the coach over the road air system that supplies the brakes and suspension is leak free and this is an air dump valve being falsely enabled by the leveling system just in drive?

It may also be helpful to see if when you put the coach in Drive if you can hear a leaking location that is expelling a volume of air rather than just a smaller leak. If you have an air dump valve that is venting or stuck open when it should not be and the coach over the road air system is in tact, then it may be possible to disconnect the dump valve wiring that is activating in error (therefor eliminating the leak) and allowing you to travel. It would mean that the air leveling system while parked may not be able to be used until this is all sorted out.

One caution, you should not be under the coach unless it is safely supported with the hydraulic jacks or blocks or some means to be sure that this coach cannot dump air while someone is underneath. You may be able to work with a Freightliner truck shop to look at this.

Later Ed

[DeeNoyer]

Duh, I meant to post our coach details under my name, so sorry
1998 Beaver Marquis Tourmaline
I'll get the rest of the info you requested from DH  first thing in the morning, (I had a meeting that ran very late and he's already in bed.)
I did get an appointment at a local truck repair shop for 7 AM tomorrow. 
We are typically do it yourselfers, but this stuff will take time to learn.  So glad to have you all here to help.
Hopefully we will have a solution soon.

Dee

[Gerald Farris]

Dee,
There is one more bit of information that my be helpful, and that is which chassis you have. The 98 Marquis came with either a Gillig chassis (early production) or a Magnum chassis (later production). However, from the limited information that we have, it sounds like you have a problem with a height sensor, probably a broken rubber piece in the linkage.

Gerald 

[Dave Atherton]

Reply to leveling valve, last spring had motorhome with same kind of problem and was leaving
For Wash State. Passenger side front found the leveling valve it self bad leaking air. Motor home
Bleed off air within 15 minutes. Could not get part local but located air valve back in Wash. Made
Temp repair at owner request unit could hold air for travel. Taken 1/4 pipe plug and plugged the air exit  on leveling valve with air bag in travel height. Test ride we decided to plug both air level valves
in front. Owner made trip back to Wash. With no problem from AZ. When back in Wash. Owner
and let me know repair was made and replaced both air leveling valves bdin front. Note: it is real easy to
get at air leveling valve. Dave Atherton retired Cat mechanics

[DeeNoyer]

Thanks guys,

We have the Gillig Chassis.  From DH notes left for me this morning- The problem is in the air ride. 
The type levelers, he says we have all three-hydraulic jacks, air level and air ride ( I think you were asking the brands of each?)
Hydraulic jacks work fine, fluid level is fine.

The air does hold pressure in the air tank system while in neutral and then dumps the air as soon as you put it into drive (but only on the driver's side) 

I'll be gone for a few hours, can't wait to see what you think when I return. 
We put in in the truck shop this morning,
Not feeling as grim as yesterday, lol, so as least we have some hope.
Thanks for your comments and guidance thus far.

Dee

[Edward Buker]

Dee,

It still seems like there is an air dump valve in the system that is part of the air leveling system that you would use when parked that is getting turned on when you put the coach in drive. Listening to find the source should be fairly easy for your mechanic.

Later Ed

[Dave Atherton]

Ed & Dee, the system that I mention earlier was the front leveling system.On each side had a air
Leveling valve at top of air bag along outside frame frame front axle. Air coming out from plastic
air line that dumped air when level rod moved arm on air leveling valve. The plastic air dump line
was connected with a 1/4 brass fitting with bard for plastic line. Glad to hear you have motorhome
in shop, again what I done was a temp repair at owner request. My problem was on the right
front side to get him back to Wash.  Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Keith Moffett]

We have the SMC (jacks) leveling and air ride.  On one occasion the control pannel kicked the air dump valve open while trying to build pressure.  That dumps the whole system not just the one side.

[Joel Ashley]

I have to side with Gerald here, since something similar happened to us in 2012.  Beaver Coach in Bend found the culprit immediately - the rubber coupling in the sensor linkage was shot;  I remember the tech scooting out from underneath with the linkage in his hand and a very self-satisfied grin.  It's quite a common malady and not too hard to remedy;  it's just that you shouldn't be messing around with the air system under the rig unless you know what you are doing.

Joel

[DeeNoyer]

So here's what happen today.  We dropped off the coach this morning at 7 AM.  Never heard a word until 4 PM.  The guy says, " I THINK I've got it fixed, I'll be sure tomorrow!  BUT "we" have another problem.  Another driver in our yard hit your coach and broke your side mirror, don't worry we'll take care of it, but if I can't get it fixed before you need to leave, you could drive with it cracked and deal with that when you get back.  He want's to get someone out there tomorrow to replace just the mirror.  We went down to the shop after my husband got home from work to see if we could view the damage, but they closed at 4 PM and all we could see was the back half of the Coach behind a locked gate.    So I hope the glass gets replaced and that's the extent of the damages to our coach. 

If we are waiting until tomorrow to see if it hold air overnight, it was already doing that when we took it in
I've printed what you've written here in case it's not fixed and give the mechanic a few more clues on what to look for.

Beginner's bad luck or what??

Thanks again for the tips.

Dee

[Edward Buker]

Dave, Dee,

What is confusing here is that there is no air dump until you select drive which would indicate to me that some electrical signal is causing the air dump to take place on an electrically driven valve. The Gillig chassis over the road leveling system had just one mechanical air valve in the front that fed air bags on both sides of the front as does the SMC chassis. This is a straight mechanical valve with no electrical link to the shift panel going into drive.

If the coach has a tilt to one side it is usually one of the two rear mechanical valves that control air to the rear bags. The rear valves control the tilt of the coach and the rear ride height but they also have no electrical input where going into drive would dump air. I think the problem is being caused by the non over the road air leveling system that includes some electric driven air dump logic and valves. 

Gerald and Joel have mentioned the failure of the rubber coupling on the valve control rod system that mechanically regulates the front leveling valve. That is the most common front leveling system fail but the shift pad going into Drive has no way to initiate a change that would dump air with that system.

It will be interesting to learn what happened here that caused this problem and what the cure is.

Later Ed

[Dave Atherton]

Ed, sure glad everyone is on top air leveling system, called the owner in Wash. That
had air loss problem last spring. His problem was in the right front air bag which owner said
driving into cross wind motorhome will level, which he said one air bag in front will add air and
other side will let air off via: leveling valve setup with leveling rod and rubber grommet attached
arm on the leveling valve. There is one for each side in front. His problem motorhome lose air
on right side driving or stopped with engine running. Thanks for turning me in the right direction
leveling setup. Reading post at first sounded like what happen last spring in AZ. Air system
With motorhome. We are talking in different area.  Dave Atherton Retied Cat Mechanic

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

I was intrigued by your temporary fix of putting plugs in the outlet of the leveling valves, never knew they were threaded and that you could possibly do that in a pinch. You have some real hands on experience, hugging Cats all those years, that sheds light on things that will remain a mystery to most of us. The problem and fix on this issue will be an interesting one...

Later Ed