Batteries won't charge above 12.5v

[Joel Weiss]

I have had a portable charger on the battery bank all day set to 2 amp charge.  Right now, just after returning home from being away for six hours the portable charger is reporting the battery bank is fully charged, and the Aladdin is reporting the battery bank at 12.3 volts with a 4 amp charge rate.

This is what really puzzles me.  Why would the portable charger, that has nothing to do with whatever might be going on in the coach, report that the battery bank is fully charged?

[Dick Simonis]

Have you verified the Aladdin reading by using a voltmeter directly on the batteries?

[David T. Richelderfer]

I went back and re-read my posts in this thread.  Notably, I must confess I miss-typed some numbers.  In an earlier post I indicated the difference between the HOUSE battery bank voltage at the bank versus at the Aladdin and inverter remote panel was 7v to 8v.  That should have been 0.7v to 0.8v.  Basically, after I had the portable charger connected to the HOUSE battery bank at a 2 amp rate for several hours I was seeing 12.9v at the HOUSE battery bank using the multi-tester while at the same time I was seeing 12.3v (or so) on the Aladdin and inverter remote panel.

Later, as a test, I set the absorption time on the inverter up from 2 hours to 6 hours and set the portable battery charger up from 2 amps to 10 amps.  Now I was seeing 12.9v at the HOUSE battery bank using the multi-tester, while at the same time the Aladdin and inverter remote were showing 12.5v.  Changing the absorption time kept the yellow BULK LED on for a much longer time which in turn made the Aladdin report a charging amperage for a much longer time.  Notably, as soon as the yellow BULK LED goes out the Aladdin's reported charge rate goes to discharge and over time the Aladdin's reported HOUSE battery bank voltage erodes to lower values.  So, when I see the yellow BULK LED out I reset it to on.

Until departing Fredericksburg, TX this morning I had the portable charger connected to the HOUSE battery bank and set on the 10 amp charge rate for about 36 hours.  During this 36 hours the absorption time was set to 6 hours.  When I went to start the engine to air up the bags before retracting the slides I noticed the CHASSIS battery bank voltage reported on the Aladdin was 11.0v.  When I turned the key to start the engine there was not enough battery power to turn over the engine.  It just clicked repeatedly.  The 50 amp cord was still connected, the HOUSE battery bank still had the portable charger attached at the 10 amp charge rate and the HOUSE battery bank voltage on the Aladdin was 12.5v.  So, I used the BATTERY BOOST to start the engine.  I aired up the coach and shut it down to retract the slides.  I again used the BATTERY BOOST to start the engine and let the engine run while I disconnected the portable charger and disconnected the 50 amp cord from the RV park pedestal.

After an hour or so of traveling from Fredericksburg the Aladdin was reporting both battery banks (while traveling) at 14.0v to 14.1v.  The dashboard's amperage gauge while traveling was reporting about 14v.  I have been at an RV park in Fort Stockton for about 3 hours plugged into 50 amp with the absorption time set on 6 hours without the portable charger connected.  The Aladdin is reporting the HOUSE battery bank at 12.4v with a 9 amp DIS rate, and the CHASSIS battery bank at 12.8v.  Why would the CHASSIS battery bank GO TO 11.0V in Fredericksburg when it had not been used?  It occurs to me that I might suggest the service tech check the BIG BOY and BIRD charging system first when I get to Tucson next week.  That would be quicker and easier than removing and bench testing the inverter/charger.

[Steve Huber]

DAvid,
I may be mistaken but am fairly sure the charge path with a Bird system charges both house and chassis batteries at the same time rather than house to chassis with an Echo system. Since the batteries are reading "normally" when the charge source is the alternator, it sounds like the Xantrex charge system is the culprit.
Steve

[Edward Buker]

David,

Because this all worked well before you had the Xantrex problems I believe like Steve does that the Xantrex is your problem. There is discharge from the chassis battery to the engine ECU even with the key off in most of these chassis. The Big Boy relies on voltage levels to connect the two banks and you may not be reaching those levels. The fact that a small charger can maintain your house bank to some extent and that the engine alternator gets to 14.1V with driving would imply that the batteries themselves do not have shorted cells which could cause charging issues. I would start with a Xantrex replace/repair before pulling anything else apart. If you are using a small charger and your chassis bank is not getting charged add a jumper cable from the 12V plus of the house bank to the 12V plus of the chassis bank while you are charging. You are then not relying on the Big Boy logic to couple the banks. You may not be getting to high enough voltage levels with a small charger to trigger the Big Boy logic to connect.

Later Ed

[David T. Richelderfer]

Keeping the yellow BULK LED light on seems to be working.  I have now changed the absorption setting on the inverter's remote panel to 8 hours.  So far, this has kept the yellow BULK LED light on indefinitely.  (I hope this does not cause a side issue.)  Also, since the yellow BULK LED light is on constantly the HOUSE battery bank voltage, as reported by the Aladdin, has been maintaining 12.6v to 12.7v.  Now I need to address the declining voltage on the CHASSIS battery bank.  I will either attach jumper cables between the two banks of batteries as Mr. Buker suggested, or attach my new portable charger to the Chassis battery bank set on a 10 amp charge rate.  I think I have this figured out well enough to get by until after New Years when I get to the RVMD shop in Tucson.

[David T. Richelderfer]

I have been in the Pima County Fairgrounds for three nights.  The RVMD people have been to the coach and just this morning have decided the inverter/charger (a Xantrex Trace SW 2512 MC,  vintage 2003) needs to be replaced.  Its battery charging circuit is operating very erratically and in RVMD's opinion is in the process of failing and likely to soon fail completely.  For three weeks the only way I could keep both battery banks mostly fully charged has been to connect two portable chargers, one to each bank.  When traveling, the engine's alternator did a great job keeping the battery banks fully charged.  Now I am waiting for the RVMD folks to contact my warranty company about the several issues in the coach getting repaired - the big item being the inverter/charger with other items being a Norcold Ice Maker leak, a sconce rheostat light switch being replaced, and an inspection and "tune-up" of the two leveling systems, HWH air and RVA hydraulic.

It appears I have a choice of competing, comparable inverters.  I suspect the warranty company will decide which it will pay for.  I am leaning towards the Magnum 2800w basis the many opinions I have read here on the Forum.  The Xantrex alternative is its 3000w.  Neither manufacturer now offers a 2500w for replacement.  I have been warned by RVMD that in their experience warranty companies will not pay for new inverter remote modules nor Auto Gen Start (AGS) modules.  Apparently, warranty companies consider remote and AGS modules as "upgrades" even though my SW 2512 inverter has both features.  The warranty company and I may have to have a serious meeting of the minds.  We'll see.

[LaMonte Monnell]

Warranty Companies are so much fun to debate with.(NOT) !

Usually in my debates I lost so I don't have it anymore. I put money away for issues I can't repair myself.

Good luck getting all your repairs accomplished.

[Joel Weiss]

FWIW I started a thread yesterday that appears very similar to this one.  The voltage reported on my CMP was about half a volt less than the voltage being displayed on the inverter's remote panel.  In my case, I was able to make the discrepancy disappear by cycling the "salesman's switch" through a couple of ON/OFF cycles.  Although the fix was temporary and had to be repeated, it appears to be getting better each time it is done as if the relay terminals are cleaning themselves a bit. 

I doubt that Dave's problem is the same as mine, but you never can tell....

[David T. Richelderfer]

Yesterday the independent inspector for the warranty company checked the inverter on the repair company's bench (RVMD in Tucson, AZ) and came to the Marquis to check on the other two items being submitted for warranty coverage on this service call.  The other two items are a leaking ice maker in our Norcold LRIM 1200 fridge and a dimmer switch for one sconce light fixture.  The two major items have been approved for replacement under the warranty.  The sconce light dimmer switch, since it had been removed, was not able to be approved because the inspector was unable to see it malfunction.  I did not know that until this morning; he did not mention it while here, although he did take a look at it.

This morning I authorized the ordering of 1) a new inverter/charger plus its remote panel and Auto Gen Start (AGS) module and 2) a new ice maker unit for the fridge.  These items are fully covered (except freight, if any) under the warranty - the items themselves and their installation.  I had already found a replacement sconce dimmer switch ($11.99, no freight) on Ebay and have received it.  Recall, I had been warned by RVMD that warranty companies typically do not pay for remote panels and AGS modules because they are considered "upgrades," but my inverter had both these features so they agreed to pay for them without an argument.  The AGS was incorporated within the old inverter; new inverters typically have separate AGS modules now.

I will be getting a new Xantrex Freedom SW3000 inverter.  You may criticize this decision by being in favor of the Magnum.  The Xantrex unit will be here on Tuesday next week and ready for installation either Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday.  The Magnum unit takes at least a week for delivery.  After spending many hours on the internet researching, I found the original Xantrex Freedom series invertors (shipped 2010 to 2012/13) had problems but the newer units seem to have been working well with fewer, if any, problems.  I do not know about the ice maker's expected delivery date.  Hopefully, I'll be able to leave Tucson by the end of next week or after the weekend... after two weeks of being parked here.  I will likely stay on a few days after everything is installed to make sure it's all working properly.

[David T. Richelderfer]

It's 7am in Tucson, AZ and I am happy to finally see both the Marquis' battery banks showing 13.6v to 13.7v after installation of the new Xantrex Freedom SW3000 inverter/charger yesterday.  The new inverter/charger was switched on just before dusk and the Aladdin immediately showed a 130+ amp "HOUSE BAT" charge rate with the "HOUSE BAT" voltage showing about 14.5v.  At this moment and after charging overnight the Aladdin is showing the "HOUSE BAT" at 13.7v with a charge rate of 4a.  The younger, skinny guy of the two RVMD guys ran a new battery temperature cable from the HOUSE battery bank to the inverter and a new remote System Control Panel (SCP) cable from the front of the coach above the entry steps down and back to where the inverter/charger is located.  It's a good thing he is young and skinny.  He was under the coach and out-of-sight for a long time stringing those two cables!

Also, yesterday the Norcold fridge's ice maker was replaced.  This morning I can see it has not only made ice, but also without a hint of a water leak down the side of the freezer compartment's wall onto the freezer compartment's floor.

My total bill was $606 -- $106 for adjusting the two bubble levels, one each for the air leveling and hydraulic leveling systems, plus $500 deductible for the $3,550 bill for the inverter/charger replacement.  My warranty company has now paid out about $6,200 in 3 1/2 years on the 4-year warranty that cost $5,000.

Now on to figuring out how to manage and program this new inverter/charger system...

[David T. Richelderfer]

On Friday, January 22, 2016 the two RVMD guys had to return to fix an installation error they made on the new Xantrex Freedom SW3000 watt inverter/charger.  There are 14 different generator types that can be programmed into the inverter.  The head RVMD tech who was leading this installation was not sure which generator type should be entered.  After he called Xantrex the day after the installation he found out my generator (an Onan 12.5KW Quiet Diesel) is a "Type 1."  In further discussion the Xantrex spokesman related there are four wires coming from the generator that all must be connected into the Auto Gen Start (AGS) module.  Only three of the four wires were used by the prior inverter that went bad.  Therefore, they had to return to the coach to string another wire along the frame rail from the generator to the AGS module.

After setting the correct generator type into the new Xantrex program, everything seems to be working.  It's now Sunday, so it has worked well for two days.  We plan to hang here for at least several more days to enjoy the 70F to 85F temps and give the new inverter and me time to get to know each other.  Hopefully, this service call is history.

[Edward Buker]

David,

Glad you have the charging system back in order. All is well that ends well...

Later Ed