2007 Contessa wiring problem

[Will Hansen]

Hi BAC!
New member... first post. I've been lurking for more than 2 years and glad to finally be able to 'talk' to all you folks. Wife Carla and I finally pulled the trigger on a 07 Contessa in April that BCS had sitting on their lot. Before I explain the issue I'm having, let me give all of you a big thank you! This forum was a major factor in my education and our brand decision.

We're in Seattle and getting set to retire. Our Contessa is going to get some miles and we look forward to seeing what all this rally fuss is about ;-). I'm a software developer and Carla is a buyer for a small manufacturing company. Kids are all off the payroll... time for us to have some fun!

Anyway, we've been getting to know our new coach, 'making it ours' over the last couple months, climbing the learning curve, and generally fixing anything that's not right and getting a baseline on maintenance chores.

What follows is a bit of a 'tale'... sorry... hopefully somebody finds it interesting and since searches of this forum turn up little to nothing on the connectors and PCB board, I figured I'd fill that gap, so here goes...

One thing that has never worked right is the sliding step cover (aka the 'step close out'). On our coach, it's an electric screw drive. Our problem is that it only operates when the ignition is off. Turning off the engine to exit the coach every time we come and go from our locked storage space or pull into a campground kiosk is a huge PITA. So, I know it's not supposed to work that way. I've talked to BCS and I know I could take it to them or someone else, but I'm up for the challenge and have been reading everything I can find and investigating. Now I've come to the root of the problem but I don't know if what I'm looking at is a 'fix' or a 'bug'.  (Now would be a good time to bail out if you don't want to get into the dirty details of the '07 Contessa chassis PCB board under the drivers seat.)

The Deutsch connector of interest is the one in the upper left corner labeled VCL. Per the diagram on the bay door, pins 7 and 8 are power for the step close out. Per the diagram, they both go to fuse F3.  It all makes sense; two sources of power, one for ignition on and the other for ignition off. But that is not how the coach is wired! My gut tells me that I should change the wiring back to 'spec' but I've discovered a couple items that lead me to want to ask you folks for your thoughts.

So, I'm about to describe how my PCB is wired and my question is: What am I looking at? Is it wired differently from the diagram to get around a flaw in the PCB board itself or is it just screwed up by somebody who wasn't careful? And, have any of you seen a pattern like I'm about to describe? In other words, is this a fix for a problem that I will encounter when I put the wiring back as I think it was when the coach was new?

As I dove into this problem I knew I had to pull and check all the mini-fuses. In doing so, I noticed that F17, F18, and F19 should have 5a but were in fact 20a!!!  So I changed them back to 5a. (Teaser: this ended up biting me, as I'll describe, and is what prompted me to post this.)

Then, to my shock, I finally noticed that there were no wires at all connected to VCL pins 7 & 8!  Sadly, I had to have my head buried in this bay for an embarrassingly long time before I actually discovered this critical item. To that point in time, I had just assumed it was wired per the diagram. Lesson #36,575 in coach ownership!

Upon further digging, I found that the wire labeled VCL8 that should have been connected to pin 8 was actually connected to pin #4 (a location that the diagram shows as unused). And wire VCL7 was a loose end, buried back behind the wire bundle leading to the VCL plug.  So, that certainly looks like it might be related to my close out problem.  Ya think?  But, continuing on, I put a continuity tester on pin #4 to see which fuse it went to.  And found it didn't go to F3 or any other I could find, and I eventually gave up looking. But I did find that pin 9, the dash radio, does go to F3, which, according to the diagram, is the fuse that is supposed to protect the close out. Pins 7 & 8 go to F2, not F3 as spec'd on the diagram.  Pin 9 should go to F2. So, unless someone rewired the VCL socket attached to the board, the board did not match the diagram 'at birth'.

Looking more closely at the connector, pins 10, 11, and 12 show as unused on the diagram. And on the actual physical connector, their wire holes are properly sealed with tiny white plugs to keep moisture out.  But there are no such white plugs for pins 7, 8, and 9.  This suggests to me that when the coach was born, it was wired per the diagram, although the roles of fuses F2 and F3 seem to be reversed. That might not be a big deal. But F2 is 15a and F3 is 20a, so I should switch the fuses to match the actual roles.

However, the real mystery seems to be why wire VCL9 which started life connected to pin 9 ended up on pin 4 and what impact that has. Why would someone do this?

Lacking a means to connect my loose end wire VCL7 to pin 7, I ordered a new Deutsch connector 'kit' so I'll have the necessary bits to put my VCL connector back to 'spec'.  In the meantime, I drove the coach. The close out did it's thing... then... it stopped working when we tried to retract it.  I suspected a fuse.  It took awhile, but I eventually found that F17 and F19 were both blown.  Replacing them got the close out working again.

Remembering that these were fuses that I had reduced back to 5a from 20a, this looks like I finally found the trail leading from pin #4. It appears that some previous owner found it necessary to boost these fuses to avoid the impact of using #4 for the close out. But the mystery of why pin #4 was put in use at all, remains.

Now one last clue... and it might be a big one... or it might be just a red herring. This coach was imported into Canada, then imported back into the USA.  Some wiring was definitely added to the board to support equipment required in Canada, and then later removed. In researching this, I've found only that it was daytime running lights, but I'm not certain that is the extent of it. Can any of you fill in the blanks on what such wiring for Canadian compliance involves?

In any case, over the years, at least two persons have done some serious mucking around in this PCB board.  And two of the pins on the VCL plug are for headlights. So that might explain why someone was in that plug, changing pins around, or might not.

So that's where I stand.  I'm ready to put wire VCL7 back on pin #7 and VCL8 on pin #8 and notate my diagram to show the reversal of roles for fuses F2 and F3, and flip the fuses to the spec'd amps.  In doing so, I will vacate pin #4 and hopefully eliminate the reason why F17 and F19 blew last weekend. Or... hopefully one of you kind folks can shed some light on the mystery of pin #4 and prevent me from going down this road.

Thanks for listening!
-Will
 
Will & Carla Hansen
'07 Contessa, 400 Cat C9
Towing Dodge Ram 1500

[Edward Buker]

Will,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on taking the plunge. There is little I can add on your board quest.

In general the wiring tends to be wrong and  the diagrams tend to be right but that is not a given. My main suggestion would be to give a call to Monaco and BCS. You may be able to gain some knowledge about who made the board and talk with the supplier and possibly a designer. I would try and focus on just the screw jack circuit and operation given there is a lot of info in your note.

It is somewhat of a long shot but sometimes you get lucky and find the person that has all the answers. As far as the fuses, 5 amps seem light for a motorized screw drive. I might consider trying a 10 or 15 amp, working my way up until the fuse no longer fails. That may save a board component, better to have a fuse fail.

Lastly I would find out if the board is still available. If not, it may change how much experimenting and the level of caution you want to exercise with the wiring of that board. Good luck with this, it is quite a quest....

Later Ed

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Will,
I took a look at the wiring in my 07 Contessa.
F17: Ign relay +  (5a)
F18: Chassis Bat + spare (5a)
F19: Chassis Bat + spare (5a)

VCL:
Pins 10-12; NC and plugged.
Pins 7-8; open, no plugs,
VCL7 wire; n/c loose in bundle as you described.
 Attached a fuse layout in case you don’t  have one.

Steve

[Will Hansen]

Thank you Steve!  This is very helpful info.  Right, the diagram says fuses 17, 18, and 19 should all be 5 amp.  So I now know the diagram is correct.

Let me make sure I understand what you're telling me about the VCL pins.  You're saying that both your pins 7 & 8 are unused and unplugged, same as mine, right?  And that your wire VCL7 is a loose end (unconnected), again, same as mine?

And could I trouble you to check which pins your wires VCL8 and VCL9 are connected to?  With that info, I can change my wiring to match yours and see what happens.  Your close out works when the ignition is on, right? ;-)

And thanks for the fuse list, nice addition to my little Contessa library.
-Will

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Will,
Yes,  VCL  connector pin positions 7 & 8 are empty and 10,11, &12 are empty and plugged. Wire VCL 7 is loose and appears never have been connected. Clean butt cut.
Stair cover works with ignition on or off.

VCL pins       Wire labeled
1   VCL 1  (label smeared but looks like 1)
2   VCL 2
3   VCL 3
4   VCL 8
5   VCL 5
6   VCL 6
7   N/C
8   N/C
9   VCL9
10   N/C
11   N/C
12   N/C
Hope this helps.
Steve

BTW, could you email me a copy (pdf or jpg etc) of the diagram you referred to in your elec bay?
THX!

[Will Hansen]

** Conclusion **
After taking Ed's advice to call Monaco and many emails back and forth with Steve H. and Monaco and also between Steve and Monaco (thanks again Steve!), my step close out now operates with ignition on or off. The root problem was that the system was receiving power via the slide relay and thus only powered when ignition is off (just like the slides). The coach was apparently wired like this from birth. Not a component failure or blown fuse. The simple fix was to reconnect the one power wire to an un-switched source, but it sure took a lot of chasing around to figure out.

And boy, was I a babe in the woods when I started this thread! Essentially, everything I was assuming (based on diagrams and wire labels) was dead wrong! So, for the sake of other 07 Contessa owners who go spelunking in the electrical bay, and especially those with step close out problems, I'll recap what Steve and I have learned. I'm hoping Steve will correct any mistakes in the following and pipe in with input of his own as the body of knowledge in this area of the coach is pretty lacking.

No schematics for the step close out or the PCB that we could find were accurate 'as drawn' for either of our coaches.  In general, the step close out system on 07 Contessa's is comprised of a pair of motors, one for extend, the other for retract, driving a single screw to move the step cover in and out. They are controlled by a pair of relays mounted on the back wall of the front street-side electrical bay, upper left, beside the PCB. The SPDT switches on the dashboard and beside the co-pilot are wired in parallel. The 3 white wires connected to the switches are labeled 'close out close', 'close out open', and 'close out common'.  The motors can only be accessed by pulling the entire close out assembly out (presumably, through the door).

Monaco tells me that the 07 Contessa was the first year for the big PCB board in the electrical bay under the drivers seat. Therefore there was a fair amount of bug fixing and a number of coach-specific wiring configs as they worked out the details. They also said at one point that the lack of good documentation was due to moving production from IN to OR.  Whatever. The bottom line is that schematics for this model year can't be trusted.

Steve's coach and mine are *not* wired the same with regards to the step close out. Steve's close out receives power via wire VCL 8 connected to VCL plug pin #4 and fuse F25.  Both wires VCL 7 and 8 are labeled 'step close out batt' but 7 is not connected. Steve's coach wiring for the relays is similar to drawing #38081202. That drawing shows other power and ground sources, and only shows one switch but that's a minor point.

My coach is apparently an earlier build. While my VCL 7 & 8 wires are connected to the board like Steve's, all 'step close out' wiring and labels mentioning 'step close out' on the PCB diagrams are pure fiction. On my coach, the two relays had zero labeling and yellow, red, green, and unlabeled white wires.

The key to figuring it out was unscrewing the two relays from the wall, cutting zip ties on wire bundles, and tracing the wires leading to the relays. The relays are standard 5 post, with posts labeled 85, 86, 87, 87a, and 30. On my coach, a wire from post 30 on each relay lead off to the slide close out motors.  And a wire from post 85 on each relay lead to the switches, spliced to become the 'close out close' and 'close out open' along the way. Wires connected to the other posts resolve to a power source and a ground. Here, my connections differ from Steve's. My wire runs to pin 12 on the VCM connector in the upper right corner of the PCB. The power wire was to pin 8 on that same connector. And that is the source tied to the slide relay.

My temporary fix was to move the power wire over to the chassis power post on the PCB, through a 10a fuse. I may eventually find a pin on a plug such as VCL and use that and thus have a little cleaner config.  But on my board, F2 & F3 are not powered, so more investigation will be needed to improve my 'quick fix'.

Finally, along the way I did find a source for the Deutsch 12-pin connectors: WireCare.com.  Their kit part number DT12GY contains male and female sides, inserts, and all internal connectors. 

That's it.  All good now... and a better coach owner for the experience!
-Will

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Will,
Good job on getting it running correctly. Glad I could be of some assistance. Also gave me the opportunity to  figure out how mine was wired. Since your relays were wired using red and black unlabeled wires and mine have the standard white, labeled wires I think you are correct in that yours is an early build whereas mine is a later more standardized one. Other than using different fuses for power, as best I can tell both coaches are wired the same and neither is documented by Monaco.

I have amassed a number of diagrams in tracking down this problem and have made corrections to reflect the actual wiring. I'll be getting them posted in the Coach Assist section of the Forum so others that run into a problem with this circuit will have some guidance. Once posted, I'll note here what docs were added.
Steve

[Will Hansen]

Steve, it was all easy after your ah-ha moment on the VCM 8 pin being slide relay controlled! I read the label but the importance didn't register.  "You only see what you know."

For the record, my PCB part nbr is "PCB784 Rev A" and my wire bundles were dated 4/17/06.

-Will