Author Topic: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan  (Read 8033 times)

Jeremy Parrett

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2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« on: September 06, 2016, 12:20:10 AM »
I believe my cooling fan is not operating properly.  I have found a unit mounted in the main coolant pipe drivers side of the C12  that runs from the engine to the rad.  It has 2 small diameter hydraulic type hoses  running from it towards the radiator.  Could this be the culprit??
 

Edward Buker

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 12:28:58 AM »
Jeremy,

Take a photo and post it. That sounds like the transmission cooler but the small lines would go to the transmission. Is it underneath? What makes you think your cooling fan is not working properly?

Later Ed

« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 12:50:01 PM by Edward Buker »

Jeremy Parrett

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 12:45:46 AM »
Ed, this is a small unit that sits in the large coolant pipe , It is about 2 inches high and threaded into the pipe beside the engine above the turbo.  The smaller reinforced hoses exit the side of this unit  towards the radiator. There are no electrical connections to this unit.
 I will post a pic tomorrow.

Gerald Farris

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 01:12:13 AM »
Jeremy,
There is no way to give you any advise about your cooling fan without some information as to what is happening and/or why you think that there is a problem.

Gerald

Jeremy Parrett

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 04:16:19 PM »
The Sauer Danfoss Thermal Wax Valve Part # 553/1/09857/190  controls the hydraulic cooling fan speed .
  My cooling fan cannot be running at full power . I have an overheating issue on major grades ; not critical but the temps are now rising above 210 when before even in the Sierra Madre grades from Guadalajara  to the Pacific coast we never had temps over 200.
  My coach is a 2000 Marquis Amethyst . The cooling system is in good condition, clean rad etc. Cat ELC is fresh .  The hydraulic pump is fine.  Power steering working well. I always gear down to 2nd or 3rd to keep the RPM around 2000.
 I have located a replacement part at Gillig in Haywood, California . Cost $417.24 US   OUCH !!!
 If anyone knows of  a more reasonably priced part please let me know .  I have a pic of my valve.  Thanks.

 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 05:40:09 PM by Jeremy Parrett »

Edward Buker

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 11:51:24 PM »
Jeremy,

The problem you have is trying to sort out between air flow, coolant flow, and hydraulic pressure/flow. Hard to know for sure what the culprit is and how to diagnose it. This post may be of some help at least in sorting out if you have good air flow. Your coach displays both coolant temp and intake air temp. The intercooler gets the coolest air being the first cooler on the outside of the radiator stack. My intake air will heat sometimes to the 170 degree range before the engine and coolant temp is saturated enough to turn the hydraulic fan on with an opening of the wax valve. My intake temp will then rapidly drop to about 20 degrees over ambient and is quite sensitive to air flow.

Each coach is different but lets say for example you are running intake air flow, such that the intake air is 20 degrees over ambient while the engine temp is rising. That would imply that the fan air flow, hydraulic flow, and wax valve are working properly but the coolant system may not be. Gerald's normal offset was more like 30 degrees between ambient and intake temp when we discussed this issue.

The turbo will heat the intake air and the intercooler takes care of that only if there is good fan speed and air flow over the intercooler. Certainly if both coolant and intercooler temp offset vs ambient are abnormally high then airflow/fan speed is implicated. It would be best if you had prior reference readings for your coach, but short of that it may be worth a look to see where the intake temp vs ambient temp runs to see if you can gain any additional insight. Hope you find your issue and hope this helps in some way.

http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,4669.msg34932.html#msg34932

Later Ed

Jeremy Parrett

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2016, 10:33:38 PM »
Maudlin International Truck Services in Daytona Beach FL tell me there is nothing wrong with the hydraulic fan Wax valve ,radiator or anything else.  If there was the C12 would overheat and shut down pronto !
  OK.....so en route down the Ronald Regan Parkway in 80 degree cloudy weather  from Bushnell FL to Port St Lucie the Silverleaf started showing coolant temperatures in the 160 deg range  rising to 183/5 and then dropping again.  I am wondering if the thermostat might be stuck open.   If the thermostat is not operating properly that could explain our previous overheating issues out west. 
 However Maudlin Int. say that climbing  the Donner Pass towing an F250 diesel King Ranch seeing temps of 210 deg was not abnormal as long as the temps dropped right back on the descent......which they did !!     
 Going to change the thermostat anyhow !!   

Doug Allman

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2016, 11:28:38 PM »
Jeremy,
On our 2004 C-12 Marquis, 2002 built C-12 motor, I changed the thermostat this year as I did not know when it was last changed as we purchased in 2012.
With the new thermostat in place we now see temps from 182 to 198 and it is constantly fluctuating just driving along on a flat road.
The old thermostat, which was the old model not the updated as new one is, worked perfectly and stayed right at 188 degrees unless we were pulling up an extended grade, we pull a F-150 Ford Crew cab which is most of the time loaded fairly well, always with firewood to the brim when headed to Quartzsite rally, then it would rise up to around 202 til we topped the grade.

When I get back to Yuma where the Coach is in December I am again going to change the thermostat to a new one again. If that one does the same I am then going to reinstall the old one. Might just reinstall the old one and carry a new spare.

I queried Dave Atherton and he basically said I had nothing to worry about as the C-12 can get all the way up to 250 without any problems. Now I do not want that at all but do not like the constant variance of the temp. Dave said that there are plenty of sensors that will derate the engine if it is really overheating.

On the 1991 Contessa with a Cat 3116 we did see 230 several times as we towed same then and there was no place to stop other than middle of the road so we kept going. I was sure it did some damage but engine never changed after each of those sessions and went for 1000's more miles.

Check with Dave to be sure.

Jeremy Parrett

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2016, 12:45:20 AM »
Doug,
  good information.  I have a new type thermostat from CAT in Elko. NV plus gasket ,
  Will get diesel mechanic here in Port Saint Lucie Florida to install it.
  I know it is critical to install the new type facing the correct way.
     Jeremy

Dave Atherton

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Re: 2000 Marquis C 12 hydraulic cooling fan
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2016, 01:23:33 AM »
Jeremy, reading your post you do not have a problem. Your engine thermostat Starts to open
at 192 DEG F and is full open at 208 DEG F, your engine will derate power at 239 DEG F. Caterpillar
Recommend changing out thermostats every two years. Your CAC Cooler sends  heat from
turbo charger to Charged Air Cooler at 330 DEG F and enters the intake of engine at 110 DEG F.
Note: If you have a heating problem the engine oil pressure will drop to lower reading.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic