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Author Topic: Ignition failure  (Read 532 times)

Terry Melot

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Ignition failure
« on: July 09, 2019, 03:43:24 AM »
2006 MarQuis, driving down the road and the engine quits. Just like turning the ignition off, 20 miles west of Bend, OR. Turns over but will not start.  Get towed into Bend.  All RV repair places are snowed under. Next day, the unit will start. May run 10 min and then quits. May run 45 min. Afraid to take it back on the road.  No warning or failures on the engine computer. Some mechanics look over when they get time.  Checking the ignition switch and other things. There is a module in the engine compartment.  It gets removed and carefully looked over. All seems fine.  One mechanic (with no time to actually look at it) suggests installing a bypass wire around the module.  No one seems to know exactly where to connect the bypass wires.  Here we are stuck in an RV service place. They gave up. We need to leave here. Have reservation at Sisters RV park.  Not sure we can get there.
ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Terry Melot
2006 Marquis
CAT C13 525 hp

Dave Atherton

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 05:00:20 AM »
Terry, do not want to alarm you but it sounds like your engine ECM has failed. You need to contact
Peterson Cat and connect Cat ET into your data port. Before you start troubleshooting and throwing
parts at problem at very high hourly rate ( first check out the engine ECM ) there has been some
service bulletins with the key switch but Cat ET will take you into your problem. Stay with only a
Caterpillar dealer service shop for reason the involvement here caterpillar has all the technical
Information where other shops do not. Just a suggestion. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Terry Melot

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 06:54:48 AM »
Dave, the mechanics who looked at it, said there was nothing on the engine computer. Said, it was like someone was turning the ignition switch off.

Terry Melot
2006 Marquis
CAT C13 525 hp

Terry Melot

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 07:03:49 AM »
Dave, we'll give Peterson Cat a call.  Thanks for the info.
Terry Melot
2006 Marquis
CAT C13 525 hp

Mike Shumack

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 10:52:39 AM »
What is this "module" that you referred to?
I assume it is not the engine ECM on the side of engine that you are calling a module as your mechanic should know what/where the ECM is. Can you post a picture of it?
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder, Vicksburg, CAT C13  525HP, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift

Richard Davis

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 02:03:59 PM »
I had the same problems with my '06 Monterey.  It turned out to be a failing ignition solenoid in the front run bay.  That solenoid is activated by the ignition switch.  When it loses connectivity it is just like turning off the ignition switch.  After it cools, it may connect again.  A new solenoid was about $50 at Napa.  I now carry a spare.  Hope this helps.

Richard
06 Monterey Ventura IV, C9 400 hp

Dave Atherton

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 02:33:34 PM »
Terry, yes that is correct if connect into system it will clearly show ECM fault on the J-1 cable.
One thing anytime going around systems looking for power to light up the engine ECM. Remember
there are 4, 12 volt power wires feeding the engine ECM and one 12 wire is switched and there are
4 ground wires. These wires are not fused and go direct to the ECM. Cannot stress enough that
Jumper around a unknown will take out your engine ECM . I ran into this problem last winter where
aftermarket attachment plugged into the J-1 data port up front and attachment plug was wired
incorrect and shorted out the engine ECM with 12 volt power to ground. Engine would turn over
But no start. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Al Anderson

  • 2002 Beaver Marquis
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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 07:57:54 PM »
While I also don't suggest throwing parts at this problem I can tell you I ran into a similar problem several years ago on an older Cat.  It would die and leave no fault codes.  The one thing we found with this one was if we would tap on the ECU, on the side of the block, it would fire back up again for a short period of time.  It was while the ECU was still under emissions warranty so after the Cat dealer drove it till it quit they agreed and replaced it. They just charged for the testing and driving time.

Good luck and hope this might help.
Al Anderson, 2002 Beaver Marquis, 42 Feet Long
Cat C12 505 HP
2 Slides with a Tag Axle
2013 Wrangler 4 Door

Jason Worman

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 08:06:24 PM »
I was just curious what an engine ECM can cost. I have the Cat 3116 engine, what could I expect to pay?
Thanks

Jason Worman
2018-
91 Contessa 36 Foot
3116 CAT

Mike Shumack

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 09:46:44 PM »
Go to the CAT Parts website, register, and enter your engine serial number. That wil give you the parts for your engine (and link to prices at the CAT dealer you select near you). https://parts.cat.com/en/ringpower?catalogId=10051&langId=-1&storeId=20176

For my 2005 Acert C13, the ECM (new, un-programmed) is around $3,600.
and re-manufactured is about $2,700. Then add the cost to program it - hopefully your old ECM can be "read" so the programming can be downloaded to the new ECM.

- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder, Vicksburg, CAT C13  525HP, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift

Gerald Farris

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 03:25:19 AM »
Jason,
Your 3116 is not an electronically injected engine. Therefore, it does not have an ECM.

Gerald   
2002 Solitaire (2017 -  )
2000 Marquis, C12 (2004 - 2017)
1993 Patriot  (2000-2004)
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Joe Moreschi

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2019, 01:24:43 PM »
Hi folks I had the same problem last winter and per Gerald’s advice carried a Cole Hersey spare solenoid. In a desperate attempt to salvage my relationship I changed out the solenoid in the front bay for ignition and Voila!! it runs beautifully again...side note to relationship,I am a hero but you guys on this forum really are for helping each other....I’m just not telling her while I strut around like a rooster lol
2001 SOLITAIRE LALIQUE
C12-2KS59180
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William Jordan

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2019, 07:06:27 PM »
Yours  is a newer coach so probably doesn’t apply but the ignition relay in the drivers side bay
Will shut off the ignition just the way you described. Happend to me on a downhill curve on 395 ... 30$ cole hersee at Napa and ran like new. Of course I’m a 03 c12 probably not comparable but it sure was a simple solution :)
Bill and Gretchen
2003 Marquis Ruby since '14
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Terry Melot

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Re: Ignition failure
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 05:02:54 AM »
Well, turned out to be the ignition solenoid (relay) in the engine compartment.  We had both solenoids replaced, not more problem.  The coach and it's owners are happily at their summer home at Pacific shores MCR in Newport, OR.  Thank you everyone for you suggestions.
Terry Melot
2006 Marquis
CAT C13 525 hp
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