Author Topic: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455  (Read 12709 times)

Pierce LeFevre Jr

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Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« on: October 21, 2024, 05:16:42 PM »
Good Day all,
New BAC member and first forum post here.  My coach is a 2002 Patriot Thunder 455.  I've had 2 years and so far have been able to DIY fix/repair any issues I've experienced.  Current issue is that main large slide out seems to catch on one side after extending about 4 inches, while the other side continues to move outward.  I noticed this the first time it happened and stopped extending immediately so it wouldn't get racked.  I hit retract and the slide came back in no problem.  I've tried again several times and it seems to hang up on that one side in the same spot (about 4 inches out) each time.  It's the inner, mid coach side of the slide that stops moving outward.  Again, I'm careful to watch and stop extending as soon as that one side stops moving outward.  The main single, hydraulic piston was rebuilt about a year ago when I noticed the slide would sag out a little over time and that the piston appeared to be leaking slightly.  After that, it has worked well until now. 
Is there a procedure for manually extending the slide so the mechanism underneath can be examined?  Neglecting more timely cleaning and lubricating, I'm thinking, has probably lead to my current issue of that side not rolling out freely.
2002 Patriot Thunder
455hp

Fred Brooks

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2024, 07:39:31 PM »
    Pierce,
  Have you inspected the interior at either end of the slide? Sometimes a broom or other stuff falls in behind the "horse shoe trim? Does your coach slide out have 2 outriggers with teeth on the bottom for a spur gear? If you have a single hydraulic cylinder, then there should be a cross-shaft with 2 spur gears to keep the room "timed" when extending or retracting. Is there any indication that the room is dropping down at the time it stops? This past summer I hit a pot hole in Texas that punched a hole in the bottom of the room where the roller is. I had to buy sheet metal and laminate it to the bottom of the room where the room travels over the roller. If you have a bottle jack and a 2 x 4, you may try supporting the room and raising it up a 1/2" as you extend it. If you could pull the bottom wiper seal down and look with a mirror and flashlight, you may see where it is hanging up. Hope this helps, Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2024, 01:04:46 AM »
I was thinking a broken cog on a pinion gear or a slipping pinion from a broken Allen screw or pin, but though I’ve encountered such things on farm equipment, I was hesitant to postulate such on a slide-out mechanism that I know squat about.  So I reviewed YouTube videos for some insight… there are many.  Though our rig has an HWH system, I saw one Lippert-produced video that references their own spur gear that looks like ours.  So if with Fred’s experienced suggestions implemented you find no issues, you might check the pinions (spurs) and racks for integral teeth. 

If there are two hydraulic rams instead of one, check for leaking around the hose connections for the one on the jamming side.  If it’s like ours, there is a single HWH ram/cylinder which if leaking would presumably affect both racks.  An adjustment may be all that’s needed, but a thorough exam of the mechanism as Fred advises is the first step.  Admittedly, exposing that assemblage would be more ideal if you could get full extension, but you don’t want to force that which shouldn’t be forced.  You may have to crawl underneath the Coach for the exam, but bay compartments may be obstructive;  ours are attached to the slide and the slide drive can fortunately be seen above them when extended.

Search “Lippert Through Frame Slide-out Troubleshooting V1” as a start.

There is a procedure for pushing back in a stuck extended slide, but you must relieve hydraulic pressure by carefully backing out solenoid nuts a few turns on the manifold commonly found with the tank on the frame under the entry steps;  it may be elsewhere on some models.  I’d assume you could push a retracted one out similarly, but you’d need multiple people involved, and some rather original thinking/engineering;  one video producer laid on the floor and using care pressed with his feet on sidewall edges.  A companion on the other sidewall pressing equally would obviously be advised.

Joel

Lippert spur gear below.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 01:21:09 AM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
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Pierce LeFevre Jr

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2024, 04:29:41 PM »
Fred and Joel, thank you gentlemen.  Your time is much appreciated.  My setup is the single hydraulic piston in the center (recently rebuilt) with the 2 toothed outriggers on each side.  It also has the attached left side compartments mentioned that unfortunately cover up seeing all of this described mechanism when retracted.  I watched and found the Lippert hydraulic slide adjustment video extremely helpful.  If not exactly the same as we have, the Lippert stuff looked extremely similar to what I remember seeing when mine was extended in the past for cleaning/lubrication.
So with no inside physical obstruction per Fred's advice, I was thinking from the start more along the lines of what you eluded to Joel.  Which was how to relieve hydraulic pressure on the system, so it could be jacked out slowly and evenly.  I like the bottle jack(s) suggestion against the opposite side walls and maybe cutting ever longer 2 x 4's as needed (limited length of bottle jack travel) to hopefully ease it out and past whatever obstruction I'm experiencing.  Finding the block with relief valve/screw you mentioned Joel will be my next challenge.  I'll look under the front steps and will research more online to hopefully find further detailed description and/or pictures so I'll know it when I find it.  Any more knowledge from anyone on this hydraulic relief greatly appreciated! Thanks again guys.
2002 Patriot Thunder
455hp

Fred Brooks

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2024, 06:22:42 PM »
    Pierce,
 Once you locate the HWH pump (usually located just forward of the entry step well) you will find the solenoids pack that control the jacks and slide out. Depending on the hwh system you have, you need to locate the 2 solenoids that control the slide out. Note: sometimes unplugging the solenoid will reveal which device is now inoperative, this method takes time but will eventually take you to the one that "extends" the room. Remove the hydraulic fill cap on top of the reservoir. You will notice inside the cap is a 1/4" socket. Put that socket on the 1/4" nut on the end of the solenoid and turn NO more than 4 1/2 turns counter-clockwise to relieve the hydraulic pressure in the system. You should be able to extend the room manually with some help. Hope this helps, Fred
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 12:13:18 AM by Fred Brooks »
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Joel Ashley

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2024, 02:12:09 AM »
As I recall, the solenoids are in an order on the manifold relative to the slideout position around the coach, with streetside front being #1 slide.  On ours the bed slide is electric, so the curbside bedroom slide (scissors action) is hydraulic slide #2, and the curbside front is slide #3.  The genset slide may be #4 unless it’s electric.  Forgive the limitation that I’m unsure, after all that, which side of the manifold is solenoid pair #1 🤔.  Each slide has an extend solenoid and a retract solenoid, opposing one another.

The manifold is atop the tank, darn it, and not as clean to get at as illustrated in the owners manual.  But yours is a very different model of coach than mine, and the subject arrangement may be quite different.

Joel
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 02:23:16 AM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Pierce LeFevre Jr

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2024, 02:45:37 PM »
Great stuff guys,
I now know what to look for and how to relieve that pressure.  Pictures and written instructions super helpful too Joel!  From reading description, it seems to indicate loosening the "nuts".  I took that to mean just loosening all 8 nuts (both sides of all 4 solenoids).  Do either of you see any problem with just doing that as opposed to trying to decipher which one in particular controls that main slide?
2002 Patriot Thunder
455hp

Fred Brooks

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2024, 03:36:36 PM »
    Pierce,
  I guess you could do it that way, personally if you choose that method you may disturb the inner needle and seat arrangements and create another issue. I would identify the 2 opposing solenoids that operate the slide room. Once you relieve the hydraulic pressure in that system, you can t-shoot your issue. Hope this helps, Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Joel Ashley

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2024, 03:08:30 AM »
A slight correction in my photo, Pierce;  the arrow identifying the pump motor should point more to the left.  The motor can be seen hiding behind the “S” in the yellow word,“Steps”.

Keep us advised of your repair adventure.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Pierce LeFevre Jr

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2024, 11:03:35 PM »
More thanks Fred and Joel.  Good call Fred not to unseat anything unnecessarily.  Crawled underneath today and my setup is totally different.  Found the hydraulic distribution block at the curbside rear.  Has 8 hoses coming into the top of it with 2 hoses coming out of the bottom that run to a nearby large cylindrical reservoir.  4 solenoids are mounted horizontally sticking out of the side of that distribution block with one large nut on the end of each solenoid that appears it could be turned with a socket.  Above those 4 solenoids and hard to see and photograph appears to be one cylindrical block coming out of that main block with a nut which would also accept a large socket.  With no service manual my latest challenge is now figuring out exactly what to turn on this device to relieve pressure.  A sticker inside a rear bedroom cabinet door lists many of my coach's systems, but unfortunately no mention of slide or slideouts.  It lists the Levelers manuafacturer as RVA Jll, but don't know if that's the company that might have also supplied the slide mechanisms?  Anyway, that's where I am at the moment.
2002 Patriot Thunder
455hp

Steve Huber

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2024, 12:38:28 AM »
Pierce,
Per the Owners Manual the 02 Patriot uses an SMC hydraulic system for both leveling and slide operation. The SMC Leveling System manual in Coach Assist shows the system hydraulic block has 4 solenoids to operate the levelers so I think that is what you are looking at. A wiring diagram in the manual also shows that the slide switch activates the hydraulic pump and the bypass solenoid. Since this solenoid is not shown as part of the leveling solenoid block, it may be in a separate location.
Steve
Steve
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2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2024, 01:05:11 AM »
   Pierce,
  I am not familiar with that system. If you cannot locate the remote solenoid pack for the slide, then you may try extending the room just short of binding and jack the room up with a bottle jack and 2 x 4 to raise it 1/2" on the side you are dealing with. Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2024, 09:03:31 AM »
In Safari (Apple) I searched “hwh hydraulic slide solenoid” and then selected the “images” tab.  There were lots of pix, illustrations, and info there that you may find helpful in identifying your solenoid pac.  A similar endeavor should work if you use a different search engine.  In some hydraulics configurations there I noted the slide ones were mounted directly under the larger hydraulic leveler solenoids, a product I’m personally thankful not to have to deal with.

Attached is one representative image from the aforementioned search result.  Also there I was surprised to see images provided by a solo travel blogger I’ve followed for years, from when he worked on his slide or jack system.  I don’t remember him relating a slideout repair, but I’m old and forgetful, and his pics are there.  He is a retired engineer with many talents, so you might check into his related venture;  search “Chaos Leaves Town” or link from his images.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
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Steve Huber

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2024, 01:48:28 PM »
Pierce,
From the following thread: ".....my coach has the SMC system.  The reservoir is aft of the battery tray as Gerald said.  The pump is there also and controls the leveling system and the LR slides."
https://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,8990.msg61699.html#msg61699
Steve
Steve
Coachless
2015- 6/24  07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Main slide out issue - 2002 Patriot Thunder 455
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2024, 09:54:35 PM »
One slight emendation, Steve:  Gerald said it is forward, not aft, of the batteries.
“ …coach just inboard and forward of the battery bay.”  Jerry misquoted him in the following post.

 ;) Joel
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 10:04:59 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
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