Headlights not working??

[RogerMilne]

So, it's a little more in depth than just not working, but I'm trying to eliminate the easy stuff first before I ask more deeper technical assistance.

So the previous owner has trashed the wiring on this RV. In an attempt to upgrade things over the years he's cut and spliced wires throughout the electrical system. I'll leave it at that for the moment, but will digress in another post about his hack job.

So headlights don't come on at all. Parking lights do come on and so do turn signals.
Before I ask the obvious, I will throw out there part of the potential issue was his cutting wires for the Low and High beam lamps, in order to install LED bulbs over the halogens and what appears to be aftermarket headlight units. Although the wires he cut seem to only be in order to facilitate the plug differences, NOT the functionality of the lamps themselves.
 My question at this point in the trouble shooting, is this??
According to the wiring schematic, it's pretty straight forward via a couple different fuses (which I've checked) to the smart wheel then to a couple VCB blocks to a 5 pin connector at the headlight units. again barring his cutting, the DRL block is hanging in the wind, in the front bay area where the generator is.

So the wiring schematic shows the DRL block in parallel to the wiring circuits for the Low and High beams, so if he disconnected it from the original headlight units, would this cause any issues with the operation of the lights or is the fact the new lamps aren't being used as DRL's not a factor.

I need to eliminate the fact the DRL circuit isn't somehow affecting my diagnosis, before I move to the next issue in the troubleshooting.

Sorry this is a bit long winded for such a short and easy question, but it'll help fill in the gaps when I ask the next couple of questions with my train of thought and troubleshooting.
 

[Carl Boger]

Roger,

I'll give this a shot, but we have different coaches.  On mine the DRL's are on a separate switch and I don't have a smart wheel. 
I would start by going to the headlight plug ends and verify if there is 12 volts there or not.  I would work backwards form there to the splices, they could have been done poorly and no longer pass electric current, or at least not enough.  From there back to the electrical panel under the drivers area and the solenoid, working back toward the switch in the smart wheel.

Have you verified that the bulbs have not burned out?  Tried running a temporary extra ground?  Try the simple things first.  Fixing someone else's handiwork can be challenging.

Hopefully this will help you some.

[RogerMilne]

Roger,

I'll give this a shot, but we have different coaches.  On mine the DRL's are on a separate switch and I don't have a smart wheel. 
I would start by going to the headlight plug ends and verify if there is 12 volts there or not.  I would work backwards form there to the splices, they could have been done poorly and no longer pass electric current, or at least not enough.  From there back to the electrical panel under the drivers area and the solenoid, working back toward the switch in the smart wheel.

Have you verified that the bulbs have not burned out?  Tried running a temporary extra ground?  Try the simple things first.  Fixing someone else's handiwork can be challenging.

Hopefully this will help you some.

Thanks for the reply Carl so yeah definitely maybe a little differences in our models and that’s kind of where I’m trying to eliminate the simple stuff to begin with.  I have a smart wheel as I said and the owners manual doesn’t talk about a separate switch for the DRL‘s so that’s why I was wondering where the DRL‘s where on this model and year plugged into the harness and then went to both headlights that he obviously has removed because I obviously have the DRL plug that goes back into the harness I’m guessing through the main fuse panel but I don’t know if the five pin flat connectors that he has to run the headlight units I’m guessing were originals and he just spliced them on the headlight side to make the two pin connectors where the bulbs would be so that the LED lights can be used versus plugging straight into the halogen bulb.
I’m going to try and get some pictures tomorrow and post those with what I think he did. Also check for voltage at the end of the connectors and make sure that I’m at least getting low and high beam voltage.

[Steve Huber]

Roger,
The 2008 Contessa wiring diagram file in Coach Assist Wiring Diagrams contains the complete wiring schematic for the headlight circuit. It is drawing # 38085026 and is labeled 2008 Camalot/Septer but is also applicable to the 07 and 08 Contessas. It, along with the layout diagrams in the 07/08 Contessa wiring files should enable you to pinpoint where you are losing voltage and/or how the po's mods were implemented. There is also a diagram of the headlight mod to improve the voltage to the lamps as the oem version ran voltage thru the headlight switch, resulting in a reduction at the headlights themselves.
Good Luck  Steve

[RogerMilne]

Roger,
The 2008 Contessa wiring diagram file in Coach Assist Wiring Diagrams contains the complete wiring schematic for the headlight circuit. It is drawing # 38085026 and is labeled 2008 Camalot/Septer but is also applicable to the 07 and 08 Contessas. It, along with the layout diagrams in the 07/08 Contessa wiring files should enable you to pinpoint where you are losing voltage and/or how the po's mods were implemented. There is also a diagram of the headlight mod to improve the voltage to the lamps as the oem version ran voltage thru the headlight switch, resulting in a reduction at the headlights themselves.
Good Luck  Steve

Yeah I have the schematics and have been a big help so far. Still trying to decipher whether or not he hacked the wiring just for the LED bulb conversion or if he did the Dim Headlight Mod'.
So far it doesn't seem like he has, but in order order to eliminate his hacking I needed to know if the DRL module would be a link in the problem and it doesn't seem to be.

thanks for the input and I'm about to update the post with todays trouble shooting results and let me know what you think.

[RogerMilne]

So for those following along, here's what I discovered today.

After trying to find the voltage at the plug ends, I discovered that I have residual voltage of about 2.4V constant on the Hi Beam circuit. Parking light circuit 0V off, 14V on. (so that's good) Lo Beam 0V on or off. Hi Beam 2.4V on or off.

So I checked every fuse associated with all lights and all good except I discovered the dimmer fuse #69 blown. Which I can't figure out because when you pull the dimmer knob out the dimmer works on the instrument panel bulbs and parking lights, BUT when I replace it the headlights worked in High Beam, but when I switched to Low Beam it blows. It started to rain so I can't check if I start in Lo Beam if it works and then blows when switching to Hi Beam. But it seems there's an issue on the dimmer circuit?

So he did cut a wire and tapped into the Lo Beam wire on the steering column, but I cut his hack out and straight connected the wire together. Just for reference the hack he did was to feed 2 relays through a switch to go out to the LED light bar on the front. I removed that and the relays and any associated wiring. But now I'm wondering if I'm back feeding the dimmer switch somehow as the Lo beam wire he hacked was coming from that but I thought I was just re-connecting the wire minus his tap in for the light bar.

The rain just quit, so I'm going to try and put a new fuse in and see if I can get Lo Beam and see if I can switch to Hi Beam or if the fuse blows. Will post the results shortly.

[RogerMilne]

So a quick follow up since the rain started again.

So unplugged the Lo Beam wire coming from Smart wheel ( the one PO had cut into for light bar) got Hi Beam and Lo Beam but as soon as I plugged it back in the #69 dimmer control fuse blew.

So I need to trace the wiring for that circuit to see what he's done down stream. I'm thinking he has a wire feeding somewhere that may have been in conjunction with the relays I removed ( believing they were for switching the LED light bar), but now thinking he may have done it as part of the Dim Headlight mod'. So now I have to figure out how to retro wire that mod' and see if I can get a good Lo beam circuit.

[Steve Huber]

Sounds like you're on the right track! In case you didn't find them, the Dim Headlight Mod diagrams are below the Wiring diagrams on Coach Assist.
Steve

[RogerMilne]

Sounds like you're on the right track! In case you didn't find them, the Dim Headlight Mod diagrams are below the Wiring diagrams on Coach Assist.
Steve

Yeah I saw them and need to print them off. Then I need to trace back the wires and find out where the Mod' started and go back from there.

Thanks

[Steve Huber]

I wrote them up so if you have ?s let em know and hopefully my memory won't fail me.
Steve

[RogerMilne]

I wrote them up so if you have ?s let em know and hopefully my memory won't fail me.
Steve

Oh awesome. I may have to call on your expertise then. I’m pretty sure at this point he has done the mod’ but added to it by installing a LED bar. I didn’t see the mod’ until after I had pulled the wiring out for the light bar and now I’m realizing I may have taken the dimming mod partly out too so now I have to figure out what part of the mod’ I need to take out to finish the retrograde correctly and go back to stock. Not that the mod’ isn’t a good idea but I’m so over this RV wiring from all the hack jobs the PO did that I’m simplifying as much as I can back to stock so I can see what’s right and what’s the POs hacks. I’ve found several fire hazards from his hack work.

[Steve Huber]

If he added 2 relays, he probably installed the mod.
Steve

[Joel Ashley]

Just in case you haven’t seen it as an augmentation to the diagrams Steve referenced, Roger, a great video (or two) was created years ago by BAC dependables, Roy and Bill.  It can be searched on YouTube as “Brighter Headlights for Your Beaver Part 1” by Bill Sprague.  Other videos exist, but… you know… these are Beaver people after all  😉.

Joel

[Eric Maclean Co-Admin]

Roger
it is not uncommon to find the Day Time Running lights disconnected or deleted on a vehicle with LED headlight bulbs installed ,the reason is that the DRL systems usually feed both the high beam and low beam headlights through a resistor to achieve a dimmer out put as to not blind on coming traffic .
Unfortunately when LED headlight bulbs are installed they draw much less current than did the incandescent or halogen bulbs did ( which is a good thing )
But with the lower current draw the in line resistor in the DRL system no longer can create the volt drop required to cause the headlights to dim and in effect now both high and low beams are on at full intensity which creates a problem.
One would think you could install a larger resistor to cure the problem but one would be wrong as LED head light bulbs are not dimmable they have a working voltage of between 8 Volts and 18 Volts if you go below the 8 volts they simply shut off ( they are either off or they are on at full intensity).

This is why you will discover the Day Time Running lights have been disconnected.

Hope you find this helpful
Eric

[RogerMilne]

Just in case you haven’t seen it as an augmentation to the diagrams Steve referenced, Roger, a great video (or two) was created years ago by BAC dependables, Roy and Bill.  It can be searched on YouTube as “Brighter Headlights for Your Beaver Part 1” by Bill Sprague.  Other videos exist, but… you know… these are Beaver people after all  😉.

Joel

Thanks, I have seen those videos and were very helpful. My problem though is it appears on my year and model, he didn't add the wires in at the fuse panel, but tapped into them somewhere in the wiring harness under the dash. Which I can understand as it might have been easier from a access standpoint, but unfortunately in my haste to remove some of his shady wiring I didn't realize he piggy backed his wiring for the light bar onto the bypass mod' and so now I'm trying to figure out what circuit he cut.