Which Portable Generators actually work?

[Larry and Heidi Lee]

Can I hear from those of you that SUCCESSFULLY use a portable generator with your Beaver motorhome? Please share the make and model. I am looking for a generator for my travel trailer that will also work with my 05 Beaver Monterey Bayview 4.

I couldnt find a thread on this subject so forgive me if this is redundant.

[Bill Sprague]

I am going to divide your question into two parts.  Based on experience, I can run my Beaver on a single 15 amp outlet, including one from a small generator.

First part is that I own a Honda EU2000i.  It is frequently considered the quietest generator with the best imitation of city power.  It creates perfect power because it uses a sophisticated inverter to to make electricity.  You can run sensitive electronics on it with no fear.  The inverter, and a smart throttle control, allow it to run quietly, based on demand.  It is expensive and has lots of cheaper imitations.  There is a smaller model that I owned when I had a small fifth wheel and there is a larger model that is to heavy for me to consider portable.  

The second part is about what it can do for you motorhome.  The EU2000i creates the equivalent of a single standard 15 amp household circuit.  Can you camp on a 15 amp circuit?  Your motorhome is designed to work with a dual 50 amp system.  In other words, it likes to see 100 amps!  But, it is also designed to "dry camp" by running off the batteries.  If you can keep the batteries charged, you cin "dry camp" for a long time.  Usually we use our big, stinky and load Onans for that.  They work great.

But, if you are visiting friends or relative and they let you park in their driveway and Onan noise is not a good idea, the best you are going to get is an extension cord to a standard 15 amp outlet.  If you plug the motorhome in directly (with adapters), you will have a hard time keeping your host's circuit breaker from tripping.  

Instead of plugging the motorhome in directly, use a common battery charger.  It can't draw enough to overload a standard household or Honda circuit.  Connect it directly to the house batteries.  While you are sleeping, it will catch up.  While you are using the microwave, TV or hair dryer the batteries will do the work.  No, you can't run the air conditoners, but everything else will work.    

I don't know what sort of travel trailer you have.  I have comfortably camped in a Terry for 10 days with the smaller version of the EU200i.  All you have to do, is keep the batteries charged.  

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

Larry, What exactly do you want to do? Most of our Beavers came with at least a 6500 watt generator. In the past ( still own it) I used a Honda EB 2200 for travel trailers and small class C motorhomes. It was large enough to run a 13500btu AC unit, microwave and a battery charger (not all at the same time). I also used it around the house for power outages. Large enough to run refers, freezer, fireplace blowers, TV's and cable boxes with power left over for a few lights. It was even large enough to run the blower motor for a gas fired furnace. 69db's for sound and weighs 93lbs. with no fuel in it. Marty

[Edward Buker]

I ran our last coach post Hurricane Ivan for a week on a Honda Eu3000i. As mentioned these use sophisticated electronic inverters. As with all Honda products they are well thought out, reliable, and will do the job. Price is a little higher than other brands but in my opinion worth it. The 3000 was enough to handle the starting current of one roof air unit and kept that running most of a week. There was enough power left over to handle additional small loads. The coach had a propane generator that was hard to get fuel for with the power out locally. If you plan on running an air unit be sure what you buy will handle the starting current of the air conditioner. This Eu3000i seemed like just enough to handle that load.

Later Ed  

[Bill Sprague]

Ed is right.  My suggestion of an EU2000 won't run an AC unit.  However, Larry wanted portable.

I checked Mayberry's website.   The 3000 weighs 134 pounds.  The 2000 weighs 46 pounds. Honda provides optional parts to "parallel" two for a combined continuous output of 26.6 amps.  The continuous output of the 3000 is 23.3 amps.  One person moving a 3000 without the wheel kit may find it hard.  The configuration of the handle on the 2000 allows you to pick up two like a pair of suitcases with less back strain and less weight.  

If you buy into my method of charging the batteries directly and want extra quiet, extra light weigh and cheaper, consider the Honda EU1000.  Honda provides optional DC charging cables.  But, I think automatic automotive chargers are more efficient.  If you buy the right one, the amp draw of the charger on the generator would not exceed the capacity of the 1000.

[Larry and Heidi Lee]

Thanks for everyone's response. Based on Bill's answer he came up with an idea I completely overlooked. Although I used to own a Honda 2000i I was never able to get the Beaver to acknowledge it's output for some grounding reason or other so I sold it. But Bill's idea to just use the genny to re-charge the invertor batteries simplify everything. If I'm boondocking and dont want to run the diesel genny I'll just run the Honda all night on a gallon of gas  and let it charge up the house batteries while I'm sleeping. Thanks Bill!

[Bill Sprague]

Larry,

You are welcome.  There is appeal to a nearly silent Honda using a gallon of gas compared to the throaty roar of an Onan lapping up the diesel!

I've owned both the 2000 and 1000 Hondas.  The 1000 is much quieter and would be the one I would buy for boondocking.  In fact I bought one for that once.  I used it to run my 5th wheel and, later, my boat.   Neither of those had an inverter system, so I had to do without the microwave and A/C.

The first Honda generator I saw was at the Oshkosh airshow (where I was boondocking).  The Honda dealer had the 1000 hooked to a big fan.  The fan made more noise than the generator.  At the time, the 2000 and 3000 were not being made.

The 1000 works with Hondas DC battery charging cords but, my understanding is that it is not "smart".  It runs at constant output.  That's why I think buying the charger first is a good idea.  Pick one based on how much juice it will consume.  The 1000 will put out 7.5 amps continuous.  My Sears charger label says it draws 9 amps in the battery boosting "start"  mode but only 5 amps in the automatic charge mode.  And, the charger knows when to slow down, and even shut off, if the batteries get fully charged.   My charger would not need a 2000.  So, in other words, the perfect combination for boondocking  may be a $100 smart charger and the 1000.

If you boondock in hot weather like we did at Oshkosh, run a big fan of the 1000 in the afternoon.  When the sun sets, plug in the charger.  

You wrote that the 2000 would not run your motorhome.   I don't really understand it, but the some generators have something called "floating" neutral because they are not grounded to mother earth like a stick house.  They sit on rubber feet.  Real electricity has a neutral and ground wire along with the hot.  In a real house, the neutral and ground ultimately connect back in the breaker panel or further up stream somewhere.  How it works in a Beaver  that sits on rubber feet (tires) I don't know.  

If you google "honda generator floating neutral" you get articles like http://members.rennlist.org/warren/gt5000c.html.  The problem seems to show up frequently when gas furnaces with electronic controls won't run on standby generators during a power outage.  

[Dick Simonis]

Bill, you make some awfully compelling points regarding the small Honda Gen sets.  I was thinking about this while we where at the Quartzsite rally while the Onan was running mainly to keep charge up batteries and run some light housekeeping loads.

Correct me if I'm wrong but a 7.5 A AC output connected to the MH power should easily allow the inverter to charge at the 50A rate.  By setting the load sharing to the 5A setting, it would never overload yet most everything would run from the inverter even if for a short period there would be a "negative" charging input.

I've never seen or heard a 1000 in the field but it should work and burn a whole lot less fuel than an Onan even while operating at a light load.

Dick

[Bill Sprague]

Dick,

I don't think it would work.  

The problem is that when the Beaver brains see 120v at the plug, various circuits are powered from the inverter "pass through".  Examples are the TV, some lights, outlets with computers plugged, etc.  And, it takes only a momentary mental lapse to plug in a hairdryer or something.  When 120 is not available, everything automatically switches to the inverter drawing from the batteries.  There is no manual control over that switch.  Setting the inverter at 5 amps might work, but I think the margins are too small when the power from the 1000 is only 7.5 amps.  It is too easy for the TV or something to need a little more than the 2.5 amps left and draw it through the "pass through".

Several times I've managed an extended stay in someone's driveway on a long cord to a 15 amp outlet in their garage.  I set the inverter to 10 amps.  You have to set it before you plug in because the charger, as soon as it sees 120, will try to top off the house batteries and will use a brief spike as high as 20 or 30 amps to do it.  Pop goes the 15 amp breaker.  

When doing 15 amp hook ups, the household rule in this Beaver is to plug nothing more than cell chargers and laptops in.  Nothing, unless, you start the Onan and let it get through it's one or two minute startup cycle.  The brains in my Beaver give priority to the Onan over the plug.  No mater if it is 50 amp or 15 amp hook ups, the Onan gets to do the work if it is running.  So, when DW BJ wants to get dry hair or cook my dinner in the Sharp, she can poke the Gen Start button.  If we forget to start the genset, the garage 15 amp circuit will quickly blow, the inverter will take over, the batteries will drain down and the auto start system will get the Onan going anyway.   These Beavers are pretty smart.  

You could test all this theory.  My primary Honda 2000 accessory is an inline amp gauge designed to measure appliance loads like toasters.  Set your charger to 5 amps, plug the Beaver into any 15 amp circuit with adapters though the inline amp gauge and watch.  If the load stays below 7.5 amp, the 1000 would work.

All my theory and (hopefully) knowledge on this comes from a long discussion on rv.net a few years ago.  At the time I was trying to figure out how to camp in my kid's driveway and I was considering a trip to Mexico.  It is rumored that Mexican 120v power could be less than the Beaver likes and many campgrounds only provide 15 amp hookups.  One of the benefits of the independent charger is that it separates the Beaver from the grid.  Bad things could happen on the Mexican power grid and the worst would be the charger burns up.  

Buy a charger anyway.  It is amazing how fast you can make friends in a campground when someone's car battery is dead.  When we camp host, I loan it out a couple times a month, usually to tenters.

[Edward Buker]

I second Bill's input. As generators get strained waveforms and voltages become unstable. I do not think that many expensive electronic items in the RV can tolerate extreme voltage fluctuations or messed up wave forms. There are two strategies to generator usage. One is have enough power to handle most loads and manage the load sharing. My perspective would be that the minimum 3000watt capacity of the EU3000I having a sophistcated inverter would be the smallest I would consider employing. The second strategy would be to isolate the AC source as Bill mentioned so that the generator load is managed by the charger and isolated from the coach AC grid. This is probably most efficient in that the load can exceed the generator capability for some duration with no impact to the AC waveform and voltage in the coach. The cost of replacement of coach electronics is very high....

Later Ed

[Harold and Gloria Skipworth]

I have a pair of Honda EU200i generators which I presently use for backup in parallel for our park model at the home base.  I use a manual transfer switch to connect them when needed.  I originally bought them for use with a fifth wheel which had dual AC, microwave, etc.  In testing their capacity I found that they would start and run both AC's if I staggered the start up and disabled the variable speed option.  the only oddity I noted was that a plug in monitor I bought would show a ground fault when used in the fifth wheel but not in the park model.  As for the Beaver, the opportunity or need has not taken place.  overall I am very satisfied with their performance.  A little tip though, I found them hard to start if they went unused for an extended period of time.  My local Honda dealer suggested removing the side cover and draining the float bowl to get rid of stale fuel by opening a drain connected to the bowl.  Just don't go to far as if the needle valve falls out it can be very hard to find, from experience.

[Edward Buker]

Harold, I think you mean the EU2000i. Several EU2000i in parallel (they syncronize and match waveforms electronically) put out 3200watts together. Because these are electronic inverters the engine can throttle down under lighter loads and save fuel and noise. However as Harold mentioned (I also saw this limitation with the EU3000i) when you are running a light load and the unit has throttled back and then there is a sudden demand with a high starting current like an air conditioner, the throttle will go wide open but the unit will not overcome the load. It will struggle not gaining RPM. You have to have the variable speed option disabled to have enough instantaneous power to handle the starting current for most air conditioners.

Depending on the size and brand of air conditioners in your coach you may have trouble running two of them on a pair of EU2000i generators. I do not think they would last very long in hot weather under that severe a load. They would be at their max limit. Forgetting starting current, a single air unit in my coach pulls around 15amps in hot weather. When you look at the application notes for the EU2000i, air conditioner is not mentioned. These are rated at 1600w continuous and 2000watts instantaneous. It would be appropriate to count on a pair of these to run one air continuously and have some load capability left over for other smaller loads.

Later Ed

[Harold and Gloria Skipworth]

Correction acccepted, I did mean EU2000i.  The test run with both AC's running was just that.  If you don't test the limits you don't know what can be done if needed.

[Edward Buker]

Harold,

Absolutely right about the testing.....I also learned the EU3000i had a struggle with air conditioner starting current, in the variable speed position, by testing it. Like you I am happy with my Honda products but they are a compromise, trying to keep them relatively light so we can still pull the starter cords and wheel them around in retirement :-)

On the 3000 they have a fuel shut off valve, not sure if the 2000 does. I shut that valve off and run the engine untill it dies emptying the carb. I have not had the hard starting issue with that procedure. Hopefully the 2000 has that valve also.

Later Ed

[Edward Buker]

Harold,

This looks like a good idea to me, caught this tip at a website regarding the EU2000i. Apparently the switch on the side is both electrical as well as a fuel shut off. This site shows a connector that if unplugged allows the unit to run out of fuel instead of being killed by the electrical side of the switch. If it were me, I would make up a switch with a couple of spade connectors to plug into this harness and have a seperate fuel and electrical shut off capability. I'm sure with the right switch and wire length a suitable mounting location could be found. Hope this helps.

http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=376955

Later Ed