Author Topic: Low voltage fuse box melt down  (Read 22008 times)

Jim Shunkwiler

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Low voltage fuse box melt down
« on: August 19, 2013, 03:17:38 AM »
Looking for any thoughts as to why my low voltage fuse box would melt down and  catch fire. We had just disconnected shore power and using generator power. I just finished  hooking up the  toad. I entered the coach and smoke detector was going off. I saw  the smoke and found the source when I opened the bathroom door. The  coach filled with smoke but I was able stop the burning by turning off low voltage in battery compartment and shutting down the generator. I have since taken the two power wires off the damaged fuse box and taped them together. I'm able to use generator so I have AC but no lights. It appears to be the wire harness  labeled HOD Data that started the problem. I also need help finding  a replacement board. I'm hoping the circuit board just failed and i don't have another problem. How  do i know? Thanks  for any  feed back you can supply.

Gerald Farris

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 05:06:25 AM »
Jim,
What year and model coach do you have?

Gerald

Jim Shunkwiler

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 11:26:56 AM »
2006 Beaver Monterey

Gerald Farris

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 04:06:31 PM »
Jim,
I personally have very little experience with the multiplex wiring on your model coach, but normally a failure like the one you experienced is caused by a poor connection that causes high resistance when you are under a high amperage draw. You may contact Ken Carpenter at BCS (Beaver Coach Sales) for more insight into the problem.

As for the parts to make the repairs,  BCS or Northwest RV Supply in Eugene Oregon will probably have the parts.  

Gerald

Edward Buker

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 04:30:21 PM »
Jim,

Is this just a fuse board or are there electrical components on it also? Were electrical components on the board the source of any heat? Is it possible to take a photo or two and post them, at least one of them being a close up of where the burning started. Usually that is what appears to be the darkest spot. A close examination to see if something on the board moved, shorted, and caused the issue. Sometimes you can get sufficient heating with current flow when a connection point is loose. This seems like a more severe situation of over current than that. If components like resistors and ICs are on the board they can internally short out and become a heat source.

The other thing to look at is the HOD wire (I do not know its function), does it connect through a fuse on the board or is it a sense or supply wire with no fuse at its connection point. That wire could be shorted elsewhere and if there is no fusing at the board for this wire it could be the problem, pulling an overcurrent condition from the board. If it is fused, was the fuse the right size?

Assuming the problem is the HOD wire. If you get a new board and start on repairs, the function and normal current draw of the HOD wire needs to be understood. Maybe Monaco or BCS can help provide some info for this wire and if they have seen this problem before. If it is a design issue you are probably not the first.

In the repair I would add a fuse holder and appropriate fuse to that wire. If the new HOD fuse did not blow I would put a DC amp meter in series with it or a clamp on DC amp meter and get some measurements. If this wire was the source of the issue and not something on the board then tell whoever does the repair that you want this HOD line fused properly and the current measured as part of the repair.

As far as running on the genset that should not have had an influence given that supplies AC. It does power up the DC charging system but you had no indications that was an issue. As far as just hitching up the toad, that uses DC but source is usually comes out of the chassis side of the DC wiring and this seems like a house DC fuse box issue.  Hope this helps in some way....

Later Ed

Joel Ashley

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 10:42:06 PM »
As Ed mentions, a photo would be helpful, Jim.  I have a 2006 Monterey too, and wiring diagrams, but I'm not sure which box you are referring to, since there is more than one 12 volt box in that cabinet.   I also don't see anything labeled HOD, though it could stand for high output data, who knows, my deciphering skills are limited.  For the benefit of Ed or others that may be able to help, see attached.  Jim, I can email you better images if you'd like.

 Nevertheless, just replacing it may be not enough;  whatever created the short circuit needs to be sleuthed, as well as why the fuse system failed.  Ed's suggestions have great merit.  There are three 30 amp 10 gauge feeds into that cabinet, one each to the two multiplex dimmer modules and one to the 12 place fuse block, one 10 amp fuse of which I think feeds the multiplex control and its data flow between multiplex switch plates and the dimmer modules.  There are so many fuses, and the 30 amp breakers, protecting this cabinet's components, it's hard to see why something didn't blow before fire threatened.

Joel

(click on the photos for larger versions)
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Jim Shunkwiler

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 12:13:03 AM »
You guys are awesome. Thanks for the support. I have pictures but can't figure out how to get them on here. I have more problems then china has rice.

Steve Huber

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 12:20:58 AM »
Jim,
On Forum, click on General Discussion. 3rd "sticky" is instructions on resizing and posting pictures on forum.
Steve
Steve
Coachless
2015- 6/24  07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Jim Shunkwiler

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 12:37:13 AM »
Thank you

Joel Ashley

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 02:27:08 AM »
Worst case scenario, besides too much rice, I'll post a picture of my House breaker/fuse cabinet, and you just point out which box fried, Jim.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Jim Shunkwiler

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 03:14:57 AM »
The damaged fuse box is located in bottom left corner of the big fuse box in the bathroom. The upper left corner has two wires in the same wire harness. They are labeled MOD DATA or HOD DATA. The seem to be what got the hottest. The lower left corner of the circuit board burned the most. One wire is black stripped the other is yellow with brown strip. Hope this helps.

Joel Ashley

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 05:10:11 AM »
I'll try to remember to check the cabinet tomorrow, as what you describe has me scratching my head - can't picture a "big fuse box".   Perhaps I'm totally forgetting one.  Aside from the obvious 10 amp fuses in the two multiplex modules, the only others are in the flush mounted little black one with a snap off cover.  The other two boxes are the standard 50 amp Main and the 30 amp inverter breaker boxes.

 MOD could refer to Multiplex Output Data, or be a tag for output module dimmer, but that's a wild guess.  Obviously, determining what it is will help clue you to what circuit and devices are involved or at fault.

Joel
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 05:23:05 AM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Jim Shunkwiler

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 10:11:22 PM »
Joel your description is correct. I'm talking about the House breaker/ fuse cabinet in the bathroom. The very bottom left corner. The two boxes at the  bottom look the same.

Joel Ashley

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 12:14:29 AM »
On the diagrams I attached previously, the second image, your culprit is the connection at J2 of Module A (10 CHANNEL OUTPUT MODULE DIMMER A), Jim.  Intellitiec manufactures these Multiplex Output Data (MOD) modules, and it sounds like you'll need a new one.  J2 on both modules A and B have only a white-striped brown and a red-striped yellow wire, tagged "MOD Data";  they are + and - data wires from the multiplex control, regardless, which splice to each multiplex switch throughout the coach.

As I understand Multiplex, and that's not very clearly, lighting is digitally managed - data sent to the controller on the above mentioned wires changes depending on how long a switch button is held, etc., and the two modules adjust dimming power to their respective lamps accordingly.  The odd men out here are the two ceiling fans and the water pump, but they are on Module B.  I would think the data circuit itself would use minimal amps, as opposed to the 10 amp lighting circuits they control, so it befuddles me (easily done) why your J2 connection would overheat.  The multiplex controller itself I think is the "IPX CONTROL" in the diagram, and you can see it has its own red 10 amp fuse, which may be the one in position 9 on the inset 12v. house fuse block.  Ed or Steve may understand this circuitry better, and can infer more from the diagrams and what you and I have written.

Before installing a new module A, I'd sure find out what caused the meltdown and why that controller fuse didn't blow to protect the data circuit.  Did any of the switches get wet somehow?  I know if I was anywhere near Bend I'd get in to have things analyzed by knowledgeable techs.

-Joel
click on the photo to enlarge it.
J2 is the white connector, nearest the fire extinguisher, on the circuitboard of Module A;  they splice to the control, Com + and -, with the red wire supplying backlight power to the switches



 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 12:32:25 AM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Jim Shunkwiler

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Re: Low voltage fuse box melt down
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 02:57:35 AM »
Thanks so much for the help. Another interesting result after the incident is all the light switches are lit up and stay on.I wish I was near Bend but  I'm in Houston and will be taking coach to  local shop Monday. Do you think water in the  the battery compartment could've caused this problem.