battery woes/inverter issues

[William Brosam]

So i pulled coach out of storage, plugged it into 110volt 15amp service for the night. made sure everything was turned off or unplugged, fridge was off etc.

when i woke up something had drained the batteries alot, they were reading 10.5volts. i went to the store to get the 30amp adpator for the wall plug (parked ata friends industrial shop not at a rv park.

after pluggin in the coach it took(on 30amp) at least 5 hours to charge the chassis batteries enough to start the generator. got both bank back up to reading 12.5V

then i decided to try to use the coach as normal plugged in the laptop, and mifi charger and cell phone. next thing i know the lights dim down house batteries are at 10.5volts again. i turn everything off and go to bed. even turn the inverter off so they could charge woke up to them at 12 volts. Okay time to investigate.

Battery terminals were heavily corroded like 1-2" of corrosion on the terminals, one of the jumpers on the 6volt house batteries was ate away so bad it broke off when i tried to remove.

cleaned everything with 10+ applications of corrosion cleaner and 3 boxes of baking soda.
replaced all 4 guage jumper cables.

charged the batttery bank on 15amp with a 100volt charger seperate from motorhome. got both banks back into the higher 12volt range.

alright lets turn on the inverter and go back to normal. turn heater(750w/1500watt both same result) on and the inverter shows 100amp draw and the voltage quickly hits 10volts again.

So after a 40* night with no heat (hurricane wall siwtch is bad it wont stay running and jim rixen says they are not available anymore, so i have to resolder mine.

i woke up this morning and went and bought 4 new Trojan T-105 batteries to the tune of 523$ out the door. (all 4 previous batteries tested bad also Trojan T-105)

hook them up and replace the big terminal ends also so now every connection to the batteries(house) are brand new and then treated them all with corrosion protectant after they were tightened down.

let the system sit for 2hours or so to charge, etc. then started turning stuff on. things were good for a while but running both a/c's must have popped the breaker on the building cause i lost A/C to the coach, and when i came inside everything was off and the batteries were in the 11 volt range.

returned a/c power to the coach and turned inverter off to let the batteries charge again and went to dinner to buy a 110volt eletrical socket tester.

at the moment im thinking the inverter is bad, i dont think one heater should pull 100amps from the inverter its only 750-1500watt max.
in the process after pluggin into 30amp service i had some smoke above the drivers cabinets and i immediately removed the satelite receiver that i presume was smoking and aftter that the microwave no longer works either.

the Refridgerator also reads HI A/C if i plugg it into the wall, at the moment its on propane and running well.

so far i think its time to upgrade to a magnum inverter but if i should look somewhere else for a problem please guide me before i blow just under 2k on something i dont need.

-William
509-342-0605 anyone that has some thought feel free to txt or call

[Edward Buker]

Bill,

I would not conclude anything is bad yet. New batteries and cables were a good choice. On 30 amps of 120V service you can run just one air unit. So kicking a breaker was expected especially when you have the added load of the charger.

Regarding the inverter, do not expect to run more than a microwave at times, lights, and electronics on the inverter. They are not made to run heaters or things like air conditioners, The current draw is too great. Your heater example if we use 1200 watts at 120V, somewhere between your high and low heat output. 1200w is a 10 amp load at 120V. Amps X Volts = Watts. So your batteries must supply 100A X 12V = 1200W. Actually the inverter is only about 90% efficient doing the DC to AC conversion so 110 amps DC is probably closer. The message here is remember a factor of 10 times the AC amps is required of your DC Battery supply so you need to use it sparingly.

I would reset everything you can find that may be tripped. All the AC breakers, any GFIs that you have (there is one usually that the microwave is plugged in, ones in the storage bays. Also breaker box in the bay ceiling area. Then see what works and what does not. You need to find where the smoke was coming from and address whatever that cause is.  If you have a meter measure the AC voltage coming from the 30 amp source and from the inverter also to see that you are getting approximately 120V.

Later Ed

[William Brosam]

So i went to homedepot and got a circuit tester, and all the inverter based circuits tested out good, then i tested the plug by the fridge (not inverter) and both lights lit up 110/220v hrm strange so i went out and found my multimeter and tested a extension cord from the building yeap 110volts, then went to the outlet im using, its 30amp 220volt not 110volt...

so now i have found the problem that has destroyed the microwave, one heater and my satelite receiver.

i put the adaptor on to use 110volt 15amp and thats what im doing right now with most everything turned off except one heater on a plug not used by the inverter.

bah cant believe i overlooked that.

[Edward Buker]

Bill,

Not sure how you got 220V into the coach from the outlet unless someone used the wrong receptacle. Our normal 4 prong plug configuration on the coach is 220V 50 amps. It separates into two 120V circuits so all breakers and outlets see just 120V. This is a website that shows the receptacles that are supposed to be used for 220V vs 120V. I'm not sure what would have been used to adapt from a 220V receptacle to your coach 4 prong plug unless the wrong receptacle was used in which case someone needs to correct that.

http://www.askmediy.com/220-volt-plugs-receptacles-configurations/

Glad that not more items were damaged and you are mostly back online.

Later Ed

[David T. Richelderfer]

This is why I always use a surge protector when hooking up to a receptacle which I have not used before.  Over the winter while in Arizona I came across a 30 amp plug that had been turned up to 130 volts at the pole coming into the business.  My surge protector would not allow 130 volts to pass through.  I noticed on my inverter that its programming limited incoming power to 132 volts.  So I removed the surge protector and relied on the inverter to provide protection.

[William Brosam]

the plug was not an RV plug, it lists 220v 30amp, so i assumed by using an daptor that it would split it up properly on the 50amp plug going into the coach, well anyone know the real meaning of assume, well i feel like an ass. but im glad i figured it out before buying a new inverter like i was about to do this morning.

[Edward Buker]

Bill,

Just part of life's lessons that we call wisdom in the end. I have had my share of "What Was I Thinking Moments" in my life...

Later Ed

[William Brosam]

So im thinking i still have a problem with the battery charging system. as im plugged into 110volt 15/20amp with an adaptor.

but the batteries do not charge it says they are charging but if i say run the fantastic vent fan they drop down into the 11volt range very quickly.

i put a car battery charger on without using motorhome power and they charge back upto normal.

is there a fuse/breaker that would prevent the battery recharge but still allow the inverter to function?

also will the inverter charge the batteries if you have it not turned on at the heart interface inside?

[William Brosam]

Oh to be clear, i have a Xantex, prosine 200 i guess, 200watt white/teal colored unit that came stock on my 2000 beaver patriot thunder.


the other interesting thing i noticed, is the house batteries will go down similarly with the chassis batteries, when one is low the other is low.

when i charge the house batteries with the external battery charger the chassis batteries go up in voltage, now im not sure if thats because there is nolonger any load on one and the charger can charge the other??

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Bill,
If the chassis battery voltage rises when you have a charger on the house units, it indicates your echo charger is working. Sounds like you are not getting charge voltage to the house batteries from the Prosine. If the Prosine is charging you should see a large current draw indication on your Prosine display. If not, check for a bad fuse, bad connection or bad Prosine.
Also, see if the Prosine charger works with the generator running. With only a 20A external source, the Prosine charger may not be capable of charging the batteries.
Steve

[William Brosam]

the generator will charge the batteries, the inverter works i can run things on it but it cant keep the battery voltage up it slowly drops off until i have to switch inverter off

[LEAH DRAPER]

Seems like I recall with my 99Pat Thunder that I had to turn the ignition key to the left to engage the echo charger for the chassis). Might try that (if my memory is working, don't have that coach any more).

Leah

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Bill,
You've only got 20 amps AC available from the shore circuit. It may not be enough to run the inverter and charger. May want to check your Prosine manual. Newer units require at least 15a AC for the charger to work but not sure about yours. To my knowledge, the Prosine charger supplies the charge voltage regardless of AC source, Shore power or Generator. This indicates to me that if the batteries are charging with the Onan generator on, the Prosine circuit is OK, again pointing to insufficient available shore power.
Steve

[Joel Weiss]

So im thinking i still have a problem with the battery charging system. as im plugged into 110volt 15/20amp with an adaptor.

but the batteries do not charge it says they are charging but if i say run the fantastic vent fan they drop down into the 11volt range very quickly.

i put a car battery charger on without using motorhome power and they charge back upto normal.

is there a fuse/breaker that would prevent the battery recharge but still allow the inverter to function?

also will the inverter charge the batteries if you have it not turned on at the heart interface inside?

William:

This is a common failure mode for the Xantrex.  BTW, you most likely have a Freedom 458 which was what was standard in the 2000 PT.  My Xantrex failed last summer; the symptoms were the same as you are experiencing.  The remote panel indicated that the batteries were being charged but they weren't.  You can probably get it to work again (for a while) by disconnecting the batteries from the inverter/charger and then reconnecting after a couple of minutes.  I did this a couple of times before deciding to replace the Xantrex with a Magum MS2800 pure sine wave unit.

Joel

[George H. Wall]

Your Prosine has lasted longer than most. I had these types of problems off and on for 2 years before it FINALLY could not be rejuvenated. Get a Magnum when you replace it.