Electrical Problems

[Gerald Farris]

Mark,
A 50 amp Surge Guard surge protector will not connect your coach if there is anything about the shore power source that is out of its specification guidelines. In the case of Jerry's coach, he had power on the incoming neutral leg, and that is out of specifications for the Surge Guard. Therefore a Surge Guard would not have allowed the coach to connect to the power source, and no damage would have occurred.

I have a Surge Guard 34560 hardwired into my coach, so all power coming into the coach from a shore power source has to go through it. It does not matter whether it is from a 30 amp plug or a 50 amp plug, all power has to be within specifications or it will not connect. If the shore power source has excessively hi or low voltage, power on the neutral leg, or power on the ground leg, it will not complete the connection.

Gerald        

[Edward Buker]

Mark,

This chart shows the features of each unit that is made by Surge Guard. You would want a 50amp either portable (they make a lock for that) or a unit that is permanently installed within the coach wiring. Either the 34750 or the 34560 would have protected someone from a miswired pedestal among other things. The unit would also protect the RV if using a 30 amp adapter. The added feature that may come into play is low voltage cut out if the 30 amp source had too much voltage drop. The version that is permanently installed has an advantage in that it can be installed after the transfer switch so that protection is in place if your house generator decided to go voltage wonky on you. (I can use wonky if I want) The prime need is when you are tied to the outside world at a power source so the portable version will eliminate most sources of concern.

http://trci.net/products/surge-guard-rv/comparison-charts

Just posted and it looks like Gerald beat me to it...

Later Ed

[Jerry Emert]

Thank you everybody!!  The storage lot admitted their mistake and are cooperating with me so far.  They are going to submit to their insurance company so that should be a joy in itself.  A RV tech. I know, the guy that rebuilt the control system for my SMS (I think) hydraulic  leveling system, is going to come and asses the coach and all the systems Sat.  I will relay all the advice and do a lot of the checking myself as you all suggest.  I'm getting a heck of an indoc into the electrical systems in my coach and into the joys of a DP.  At least we had one short 2 day trip before all this happened.  Thanks again.
Jerry

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Jerry
I had the engine colant changed to ELC done at a radiator shop today and your situation came up.  This service tech is a retired (twice) radiator guy and they keep bringing him back so he is very knowledgeable and a good guy.  He told me that the minute the power polarity is off it changes the electrolight in your coolant and creates an electrolosys that can eat the seals in the radiator breaking down solder joints and aluminum housing.  By example he showed me a radiator cap that comes with a sacrificial annode that goes in the radiator.  It was ruined in days due to this problem.
Suffice it to say that with the cost of our radiator systems it might do well to have the system pressure tested and the coolant flushed and changed.

Sorry to add to your headache but I wanted to give you a heads up.
Best
Keith

[Jerry Emert]

Jerry
I had the engine colant changed to ELC done at a radiator shop today and your situation came up.  This service tech is a retired (twice) radiator guy and they keep bringing him back so he is very knowledgeable and a good guy.  He told me that the minute the power polarity is off it changes the electrolight in your coolant and creates an electrolosys that can eat the seals in the radiator breaking down solder joints and aluminum housing.  By example he showed me a radiator cap that comes with a sacrificial annode that goes in the radiator.  It was ruined in days due to this problem.
Suffice it to say that with the cost of our radiator systems it might do well to have the system pressure tested and the coolant flushed and changed.

Sorry to add to your headache but I wanted to give you a heads up.
Best
Keith

Too bad you can't hear me laughing like an insane person!  I will add that to the list.  Is there any documentation of this issue that I can present to the insurance company?  That would really help.  Something official so they can't wiggle out of covering it.  A phone number and name of the radiator tech if nothing else.  Thanks even if it did make my wife come running to see what was wrong with me.
Jerry

[Edward Buker]

Keith and Jerry,

Electrolysis, if it was involved, does not happen in the time that Jerry was plugged in to the hot neutral line. I do not think he has anything to worry about in that regard. If there is any doubt about the coolant, and it is not on schedule to be changed as a normal maintenance interval, a sample can be pulled for analysis to see if it is beyond its useful life.

Later Ed

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Ed and Jerry
The radiator guy (Dave) told me just as I posted it above.  I do believe you are right Ed about the durration not being long enough but the amperage being so high would worry me over weakened joints.  That is why I suggested a pressure test to reveal any weakened points before they become a problem at the worst moment.
As far as the documentation on this, any radiator shop should tell you the same and be happy to do the test.  While they worked on ours I asked him to do an inspection on all the hoses too.  What the heck he was under there anyway.

Keith

[Robert Mathis]

Jerry, aren't you near Orlando, Florida? IF so, consider drivingthe rig up to Alliance in Wildwood and having them do the entire repair. They can replace the inverter, tranfer switch and whatever 12volt systems that have been fried.

[Edward Buker]

Jerry and Keith,

Electrolysis can occur if the antifreeze becomes too acid and you have primarily aluminum components but it is a DC current that is set up which migrates the aluminum ions and over time erodes and thins the aluminum. Here Jerry had AC voltage applied, so a potential that migrated ions in one direction is unlikely and it all was for a pretty short duration. I would not even venture a guess if there was any potential difference between the solution and the radiator metals in Jerry's case, in theory they should have had the same voltage given the radiator is grounded to the frame and the solution is in contact with the grounded metal. I would be far more worried about the electrical side of things and not be alarmed about the cooling system.  

Keith it is a good that you brought up the coolant system to Jerry, having the coolant serviced as needed, so that it maintains the right additive package and chemical balance is required so that it does not allow corrosion and cavitation. Your check of the hoses is also a good idea.

If Jerry can get the electrical gremlins to leave his coach I think he will be in good shape.

Late Ed

[Jerry Emert]

Again, thank you all.  I just bought the MH and there were no maint. records.  The dealer had a complete LOF change which I know was flawed because they didn't replace the coolant filter or the fuel filters.  It is going back to the dealer to finish up what they promised and I will have them do this work also.  They gave me what I thought was a great deal and fixed everything I could find along with stuff they found also.  They are going to get a chance for the service business.  I am learning more and more everyday and will have the coolant analyzed as soon as I can.  Again my thanks to all I am reading and learning daily.

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

Jerry
After four coaches and several towables I have come to the conclusion that no used RV is perfect.  In fact I hear that brand new ones are often back at the dealer for the first year.  Dont be disuaded by the overwhelming situation you find yourself in right now.  All of my advice to you and I bet much of that from others is intended to be cautionary.  That is 'look it over realy good' now so you dont get stuck with a problem later.  All these bits of advice become just too much sometimes.  
Dont worry about it too much.  You will have many years to get all this stuff fixed so as long as it starts and runs and stops when it should you are on the right track.  I dont know any MH'er that doesnt have a to do list.
Just get past the insurance part and go make the headache worth the while.  All my problems just seem to drop off as we are rolling down the road.

Hope to see you down the road
Keith

[Jerry Emert]

Update:

RV tech came out and verified that the transfer switch is bad which I knew.  The inverter is good now which it wasn't when Gerald was coaching me through the troubleshooting procedure.  Maybe it just needed to rest for awhile.  everything in the coach seems to work except my family radio charger stand.  Tested one of the TVs, microwave, all the plugs and fridge.  I'll go out tomorrow and test the other TV and the hot water elec element.  Then try to figure out how to test the aquahot.  Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Jerry

[Jerry Emert]

My last post was not the end of the story!  The inverter was actually bad.  We were fooled because the inverting function still worked which fooled us into thinking everything worked.  The 115 pass through function would not function so I was running off the batteries and of course the charger function was also so fried so I'm lucky Gerald was there via telephone to actually help me realize the problem before the brand new batteries were toast.  
Today, we replaced the inverter with a Magnum MS-2812 2800 watt pure sine inverter, new control module and battery temp sensor.  Tomorrow we will add the automatic gen start module and coach temp sensor.

Now the question, was there a separate gen start module on the old xantrex 2500 watt inverter and where the heck is it?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Jerry