Oil Sampling First Line Of Defense Preventing Major Engine Repairs

[Dave Atherton]

Let’s start into 2019 with a plan to monitor your engine health with fluid analysis, to keep your
engine operating efficiently as possible. Remember components of your engine carry an DNA
that will provide analysis of metals, oil conditions and fluid contamination.

Wear metals: Silver, aluminum, boron, calcium, chromium, copper, iorn, phosphorus, potassium,
magnesium,molybdenum, sodium, nickel, lead, tin, vanadium and zinc.

Oil Conditions: Nitration, soot, oxidation, sulfur, viscosity and particle count.

Fluid Contaminants: Water, antifreeze and fuel

Above indicators with current Oil Sample at oil change interval can detect potential problems
early. The results are obvious. Fluid test results return in a easy to understand form and any
questions on report results Dave can breakout information at hand. The main point on oil sampling
first sample creates a base line to compare ( particle count in additional samples with oil service
periods.

Past year 2018 have been involved in 7 major engine failures being the last engine change out
two weeks ago. Out of the total count there never been a oil sample taken on each engine. Had
Oil samples been taken 6 of the 7 engines repairs would had been low cost repairs. Engines that
complete failure happened contaminant dirt and dust and extended service periods oil break down.
In closing, what cost for a oil sample is nothing compared to repair cost of $ 38,000 to $ 45,000.
that above owners paid out for there engines. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Mike Tomas]

Dave- Thank you. Well- With Everything. Your Advice, Warnings, Detailed instructions, everything.

The very first thing I did before signing on the dotted line 11 months ago was to get fluid analysis on the major components. I performed the extraction myself and got (what I think are impressive results - below) The overall report(s) were all green from JG Lubricants. But although I get the basis of '0' the rest of the numbers mean diddly if you don't have a reference gauge of exactly where the numbers fall into a range. Some of these numbers like Calcium and Zinc seem kind of high which make Iron and Silicon look Sweet! But Calcium may have an acceptable range up to 5000 ppm, where Zinc may only acceptable less than 1000ppm. I have no idea what these numbers mean and I am forced to rely on the "stoplight" color choices of the overall report gauge to give me a possible false sense of security..

I have not taken any additional Analysis yet other than the 4 I initially took. But we have only put on roughly 3000 miles in the last 10 months anyway. Where do I find a chart that can help put these indicators into perspective?

[Chuck Jackson]

Hi Dave,

I had my oil analysis done and here is what they said...

This is a good start to your Cat's oil analysis program. Universal averages show what we normally find in a C-9 sample, after about 7,300 miles of oil use. Your metals are at or below average, very nice considering this was a longer oil run. Nothing in this report would point to poor wear or internal parts struggling to keep up. Silicon read a bit high. We suspect it's probably a harmless sealer or lube, given that wear is low, but it never hurts to check air filtration to rule out dirt. The TBN read 7.2, plenty of active additive left (1.0 is low) for a longer run. Try 10k miles.

MI/HR on Oil 8,000
MI/HR on Unit 28,000

ALUMINUM      6
CHROMIUM      1
IRON              11
COPPER            1
LEAD                2
TIN                  1
MOLYBDENUM 63
NICKEL            0
MANGANESE     0
SILVER             0
TITANIUM         0
POTASSIUM    14
BORON          19
SILICON         25

[Dave Atherton]

Mike, and chuck , want to thank you for taking the time to to understand the important
value of oil sample on your engine. Judgement on your part will prevent very high cost repairs
ahead because the oil sample readout will warn you If high particle count has been.detected and
potential problems can be looked at. Mike if you can email your oil sample reports and I will read
them and report you the results. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Keith Moffett Co-Admin]

What is the best method for taking the sample?   Loosen the pan plug or vac pump?   Warm the engine first?  Try to get the sample from deep in the pan or is it good enough to  pull out any oil you can?  How much in a sample?

Shouldnt the coolant also be tested?

Thanks

[Mike Shumack]

I sent in an oil sample (and transmission sample) right after I bought the coach. Most smart buyers probably would have had the analysis done before buying... 

My oil analysis shows the Copper is at 96 (ppm?) - and the report shows the "average" levels for copper is 17. All the other numbers are in the average range.

Regarding the copper number,  the report comments said that "if the engine has only had a couple of oil changes, most likely it's residual from wear in. Other metals are sitting at good levels so we don't suspect the engine is in serious trouble. Add 3,000 mile or so to tis oil and retest."  The coach has 46,000 miles on it (the service records I received with the coach only show two oil changes - but I'm pretty sure it has had more, being that its over 10 years old).

I changed the oil anyways. The coach was new to me and I wanted to change all the fluids to get off to a good start.

The instructions with my sample kit, say to warm up the oil (run engine until warm) then take sample from the dipstick tube (the sampel kit has a bottle take screws onto a "hand pump" with replaceable plastic tubing). It says do not take sample off the very bottom of the oil pan. I run the sample-taking tube down the dipstick tube into it hits bottom then mark the tube and pull it back one inch.

BTW Keith, it is very important to test the coolant. If you have the green coolant you need to be checking the level of Supplemental Coolant Additive (SCA). This has to be maintained at a specific level (range) to protect the cylinder liners from cavitation/pitting. Usually the spin-on coolant filter is where/how the SCA is added (its a chemical charged filter)  https://community.fmca.com/topic/934-sca-testing/
If you have the Extended Life Coolant (ELC) the red colored coolant you don't need to worry about SCA levels.

[Dave Atherton]

Keith, the best and recommend method is the vac way through oil stick tube. If not setup with vac pump and collection bottle than take oil sample from stream of oil draining from oil pan. It a good
idea also answering your second question in taking sample of coolant for diesel fuel. In closing
this past fall of 2018 bearing failure happened with hydraulic pump couplings to engine air
compressor allowing metal shaving to travel throughout entire oil system . Results complete
replacement of Caterpillar 3126 E model and Cat C-7 engine. Today is a learning experience
and not knowing or understanding just  how important oil samples could have prevented many
thousands of dollars for two motorhome owners. Steve Huber posted pictures On Ask Dave I
emailed for member to view. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Dave Atherton]

Mike, the copper level count is coming from your engine oil cooler which is always higher
but not any concerns. Glad to see your on top of your maintenance and you will find oil
samples at each oil service will pick up on problems with print out of particle count as you
posted oil sample findings. Cannot tell you the many times we shut down machines and
removed from service from print out results of oil sample reports. Dave Atherton Retired
Cat Mechanic

[Doug Allman]

As Dave has indicated you can sample as the first line of defense with the samples giving you an internal view into the health of your diesel engine. In doing a sample with a small hand pump and plastic line it is very easy and clean method.
The only thing that you need to do is make sure pump is clean from last sampling and always use a new clean plastic line to draw sample with. In being clean and new line you do not contaminate the new sample you are taking. I pass that along as some pump kits tell you that and some do not that I have seen.
When you purchase the prepaid oil sampling kit it will come with a sample bottle that screws onto the bottom of hand pump. Fill out the form in the kit, send in and if you give email address they will send you report via email.
Dave has volunteered to read so forward to him and get the experts analysis on all the info on the report. Save all for when you decide to sell coach and new Owner can view and close the deal.
Nothing better than having peace of mind about that CAT or CUMMINS that pushes you down the byways to the next destination.

[Mike Shumack]

I'm using Blackstone Labs https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?session-id=hem3tn45agwpka450sitntex&timeout=20&bslauth&urlbase=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2FBstone%2F%28S%28hem3tn45agwpka450sitntex%29%29%2F

There are plenty of places that do oil analysis, but Blackstone provides a "free" sample kit (pump, bottles, tubing)- the test is $28.00 (I don't know how this price compares to the other labs).

[Bill Sprague]

I used the Blackstone kit for engine and transmission.  The sample bottle kits with mailers are free.  (For Keith) Blackstone has a convenient vacuum pump kit that fits their bottles. It uses hardware store tubing so you can always use brand new, clean, uncontaminated tubing.   In other words, you use a fresh piece for the engine and a new fresh piece for the transmission.   Throw those away and get new tubing the next time.

I don't know anything about the other analysis options, but Blackstone makes it really easy.  You even get an account number that lets you look up your reports on line. 

The pump kit:  https://www.blackstone-labs.com/products/vacuum-pump/

[Fred Cook]

I used to use Blackstone but they take over a week to get results back and the price is higher than most.  Blackstone provides a decent report with a short paragraph that is useful. Speedco will do the analysis on site in about an hour.... if you happen to be at one of their facilities.  CAT will have results in a 2-3 days and maybe quicker if you happen to be close to a CAT dealer.  Speedco and CAT are both right around $15 and will highlight any out of range readings.  You can discuss the out of range readings with CAT to get their opinion on what might be wrong.   

[Dave Atherton]

Gentleman, may I make a suggestion in oil samples results. There is not a fixed standard
Used between different oil testing labs and some do go into depth as Caterpillar that heavy into
off road testing. Point I’m presenting once you get a base line and sample particle count than
stay with the same testing lab. In changing to different testing lab your baseline particle count
will change also with some labs. Kinda like two different brands of tires, both the same size but different is preformence and wear. This is not a endorsement of any one testing lab but which
one you choose stay with them. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic