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Author Topic: Another Charging System Question  (Read 390 times)

Jerry Emert

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Another Charging System Question
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:58:13 PM »
Just as I was pulling off the interstate in my home town Monday I noticed, on the Aladdin, that my battery voltage was 11.4 volts.  Looked at the dash gauge and verified it read about 10 volts.  Assuming alternator then started wondering!  The generator was running to keep the central Florida heat at bay.   The inverter charger was on.  Shouldn't the BIRD have been keeping the chassis batteries charged?  House batteries looked fine.  Right now the chassis is reading 11.9, the house 12.5 float charging with a fault on the magnum remote that says "fault MaxRN."  I will go get some meter readings soon but curious what you experts have to say before I go brave the furnace to get the meter readings.  I have a BIRD and a Bigboy relay if that matters. Thanks in advance.
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 02:06:37 PM »
Just finished checks.  Found some kind of connector near alt behind and to right that has come loose from a bolt on connection and looks partially melted.  That may be a clue!  There are three wires coming from the back of the alt in addition to the large red (11.89) and black battery cables.  One red and two white.  With ignition on the small red is 11.89 and one of the whites is 11.66, I can't get to the other one.  Checks in the battery compartment are as follows...  Chassis batteries 12.2 ignition off 11.9 ignition on.  House batteries 13.22. BIRD coach 13.2, ignition (with ignition off 0) (with ignition on 11.69.) Solenoid 0 with ignition on or off.  Bigboy relay left battery cable 11.8, right battery connection 13.22. I will attach pics (if it works.)  I will have to replace the melted connector but my feeling is that it isn't the problem but could be.  Ideas?  Thanks again.   
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 02:10:51 PM »
Is this the Magnum remote you have? Is the "Charger On" light On?

Also, on the fault code, the manual says that fault is because the generator was "asked to run" for longer time then was setup for "max generator run time". So you need to go into the settings and increase the "max run time". And you need to clear that fault code or the generator will not auto-start the next time, according to the manual.

 

- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL
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Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 02:22:04 PM »
Pics?  Maybe?  I posted pic of Bigboy and BIRD because I thought I read a post that said that you don't have both at the same time.  Probably faulty memory.
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2019, 02:26:46 PM »
The Big Boy and BIRD work together.

- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2019, 02:49:54 PM »
Chassis batteries 12.2 ignition off 11.9 ignition on. 

Alternator is not putting out the correct voltage to charge the Chassis batteries.

Quote
House batteries 13.22. BIRD coach 13.2, ignition (with ignition off 0) (with ignition on 11.69.)
This sounds normal.  Voltage at the "Ignition terminal/wire" on BIRD is low because the Chassis batteries are weak.

Quote
Solenoid 0 with ignition on or off. 
You would only have power here if you press/hold the Battery Boost switch.


Quote
Bigboy relay left battery cable 11.8, right battery connection 13.22.
Since the BigBoy solenoid is not "closed" you are reading Chassis battery voltage on the left terminal (11.8) and House batteries on the right terminal (13.22).

I think the problem is the melted terminal at the alternator. Your alternator is not charging. 

From the picture it looks like a Leece Neville Alternator - can you confirm?

On the red wire where you are measuring the voltage, are you measuring the voltage on the side of the wire "coming from the wiring harness" or is it the side "coming off the alternator"?

I think the Red wire is the battery sensing wire and that is what tells the alternator to charge, and the white wire is from the ignition switch and is what engines the alternator. However the sensing wire is only needed (I think) on systems that have the Duvac style isolator. I don't believe it is needed on the BigBoy style setup. I'll research this some more. Maybe someone else knows for sure.

In the mean time, I would work on repairing that melted connection. Maybe you can cut the melted connector out and just splice the wires as needed back to the alternator terminals.
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL
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Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2019, 02:55:08 PM »
Thanks Mike, all checks with ignition on were engine off.  I haven't tried to start it yet.  Thats next.
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 03:01:03 PM »
The generator was running to keep the central Florida heat at bay.   The inverter charger was on.  Shouldn't the BIRD have been keeping the chassis batteries charged? 

The Big Boy/BIRD manual says when the generator is running the BigBoy is isolated (not closed). This is to prevent the Generator and Alternator from both trying to charge the chassis batteries at the same time. And the generator would only be charging the House batteries.

That makes sense, but I thought I read about others running their generators in similar situation (when alternator failed) to get home. Maybe those reports where for a non-BigBoy system.  So if you were to remove the "generator wire" at the Big Boy, the solenoid would close and both Chassis and House batteries would get charged off the generator (or you could hold the Bat Boost switch On).



- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL
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Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 05:16:55 PM »
What I first thought was a connector was actually a melted fuse holder.  It has a 5 amp fuse in it.  The fuse is a little scorched but good and the wired end appears unmelted so probably not the issue but I guess that will get fixed first.  The fuse holder wiring harness is labeled engine fan.
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 07:15:52 PM »
Replaced the fuse holder and fixed a loose connection on the red small wire leaving the alternator, probably the sense wire.  Chassis batteries now read 12.4 volts charging from the inverter on shore power.  Started the coach and still shows 10 volts on dash meter.  Attached is a pic of the alternator.  Is that a replaceable regulator on the top of it?
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 08:06:38 PM »
Yes that regulator is replaceable. Can you see the model number on the alternator?

The one highlighted is the model that cam eon my coach (per Build sheet), but it looks like the regulator are all the same part number for this series.
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL

Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 08:10:14 PM »
Another check.  Engine off voltage across chassis batteries is 12.2 volts.  Engine running 11.9 volts.  Alternator or regulator?  The regulator has TRANSPO 9000 HD on it.  The alternator says model 7613N along with a couple other numbers.
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 08:23:55 PM »
Your engine running voltage is lower because you sucked some power out of batteries starting engine and your drawing some power for engine ECM. So you definitely not charging. There is no easy way to tell from my vantage point if the Alternator itself is bad or if the regulator is bad. I would suspect the regulator.

Most would take the alternator to a shop and have it tested and repaired at this stage. But if your cheap like me, and want to try a self repair, then changing out the regulator is not too hard if you have access (or you could pull the alternator to get access).

According the Leece Neville "test instructions" you need 12.4 volts at the alternator for it to charge (I don't know how strict that number is) but you may want to get the batteries charged up a bit before making any decisions.

Do you have Shore Power available? if so you can plug in and would charge the Chassis batteries back up (if the Inverter/Charger and Big Boy are working properly).
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL

Mike Shumack

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 08:28:39 PM »
Another check.  Engine off voltage across chassis batteries is 12.2 volts.  Engine running 11.9 volts.  Alternator or regulator?  The regulator has TRANSPO 9000 HD on it.  The alternator says model 7613N along with a couple other numbers.

That 7613N is a good number.

- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL

Jerry Emert

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Re: Another Charging System Question
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 08:56:48 PM »
I've found the alt on Amazon and NAPA.  The regulator doesn't seem to come up as easy.  I'll order new alt from Amazon for a Leece Neville and hope!  Thanks.
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH