Author Topic: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"  (Read 6611 times)

Tommy Gibson

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Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« on: April 07, 2017, 02:18:02 PM »
Repair shop has tried pressure testing cylinders and changing solenoid with no avail. They have been in contact with Monaco and are at a stand still. Any suggestions.
2007 42 Beaver Contessa Bayshore IV
2007 Contessa 42' Bayshore IV Cat C9 400 HP (Betty Lou)

Joel Ashley

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2017, 09:14:37 PM »
They should be contacting HWH, not necessarily Monaco.  Apparently the shop/techs are familiar with this if they've tried replacing solenoids.  Creeping is usually the solenoids leaking;  after that I'd suspect leaking line fittings.  If that's not it, I'm scratching my head.

If the other slides work okay, it's not the pump or motor.  Are the new solenoids adjusted right?  Four and a half turns out I think is max; and to close turn them in clockwise until just snug, so the O-ring isn't damaged and seats nicely.  Release nuts vary with the system.  Some newer ones even have pressure release cam handles that make it easier to manually move slides when necessary.  Make sure also that maybe the old O-rings didn't come off the solenoids that were removed, and stuck in the manifold, fouling the new installation.

Joel
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:44:23 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
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Lee Welbanks

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 03:20:52 AM »
Had the same problem with the curb side slide creeping out, only did it sometimes until it finally started doing it all the time. A year or so ago I had ordered a solenoid valve form Stuart's Service( http://rvleveling.com/HWH-leveling-systems.html ) When I talked to them he said the problem was the retract solenoid valve seeping.
So last month found out which valve controlled retract and swapped it out, not more creep, stays retracted tight. Hardest part of the job is removing the valve without the tool but can be done.
Stuart's Service is a HWH service center and have most of the parts in stock. HWH is a pain to deal with.
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Keith Moffett

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2017, 06:23:25 AM »
Lee
where are those selenoids located and what do they look like.  Ours does the same thing but we have Power Gear / Valid.
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Tommy Gibson

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »
Thank you very much for your help. I'm bringing her back to the shop on Monday and will have them check this out. They replaced my solenoid with a used one they had at their shop hoping this would be the fix and if it was the cause, at that time they would order and replace it with a new one.
 
2007 Contessa 42' Bayshore IV Cat C9 400 HP (Betty Lou)

Joel Ashley

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 10:39:54 PM »
It does sound a little like the old throw parts at it game, but most of the time these creeps (not referring to your shop tech :) ) are solenoid-caused.  Admittedly up front, I have not actually messed with the solenoid manifold personally, so the following is based on what I've read online and in some manuals, interaction with HWH, and experience as a small, relatively unversed dealer's shop replaced some under warranty on our coach 10 years ago.

Some people have managed to remove and clean or totally replace the O-rings on individual solenoids.  They can age like other rubbery products if let go for very long without use so they dry out and crack enough to allow leakage.  They also can fail to seat if a particle of debris that's contaminated the fluid jams around the O-ring.  It's a good reason to be exceptionally careful when opening the tank fill or removing and replacing solenoids or line fittings - a thorough cleaning around such things beforehand is essential, but it can be hard to keep things pristine in often snug locations.  That goes for the port the solenoids come out of.

One needs to be sure to deal with the correct solenoids also.  It is likely you have at least 6 on the manifold, 2 for each hydraulic slide on your Bayshore IV (4 slides - 1 of which may or may not be a non-hydraulic, under-bed electric), and perhaps 2 more solenoids for another hydraulic device.  Each slideout will have one "In" and one "Out" solenoid.  As I recall, solenoids 1 & 2 are for the streetside front, and then in sequence counterclockwise around the coach, skipping the bed slide if it's electric.  I've often thought that picking out the right solenoid might simply entail one helper operating the switches while another held a stethoscope or screwdriver to each solenoid in the manifold, listening for its activation.

When my curbside front was fixed under warranty, HWH recommended replacing both its solenoids;  at the time that was the practice - replace the set even though perhaps only one solenoid was haywire.  As I took it, the "In" solenoid was letting fluid by, releasing pressure that would've otherwise held the slide in, and that allowed it to come out a foot on the freeway.  Nowdays I hear HWH is okay with replacing only the one misbehaving solenoid of the pair.

Yours doesn't seem to quite fit this scenario, Tommy, but often people have an issue with a slide creeping out a half-inch or more while parked in storage, for example.  Mine does it occasionally, and even once one creeped an inch or two back in while in extended mode at a campsite.  I've found that it's probably the very minorest of O-ring leak - perhaps just a speck of debris in the fluid, stuck on a seal surface and temporarily allowing seepage.  Most people seem to think when this happens that a solenoid needs replacing, but I've simply hit the out switch for 2 seconds, then all the way back in, and it stays put after that;  that austere action apparently flushes the offending particle free of the seal.

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2017, 11:31:57 PM »
Guys,
I'm a bit confused (as usual :) ). I thought the pressure was off when the slides were retracted. If so, why would the slide be creeping out due to a hydraulic problem?
Steve
Steve
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Lee Welbanks

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2017, 11:39:50 PM »
Lee
where are those selenoids located and what do they look like.  Ours does the same thing but we have Power Gear / Valid.

The solenoids on a HWH system are about 2" in dia and 6" long. On my 06 there are 8 of them on the hydraulic manifold/pump 2 for each slide, one out one in.

Lee Welbanks

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2017, 11:43:52 PM »
Guys,
I'm a bit confused (as usual :) ). I thought the pressure was off when the slides were retracted. If so, why would the slide be creeping out due to a hydraulic problem?
Steve
Steve, The system pressure is what I think holds the slide in on retract. When I back off the 1/4" nut to release the pressure you can hear the pressure equalize and the slide will move out a little. The big slide on the drivers side has cam locks on each end to hold it in, but it also still has pressure on it.
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2017, 01:41:10 AM »
Steve, I think Lee's right.  The system is pressurized as long as the pump motor is activated, but everything then relies on clean, uncompromised hydraulics seals to hold the last position attained.  Seepage there lets escape the latent pressure holding position.  So yes, the pump is off, but attained pressure remains in place.  I'd guess that the slideout's sheer weight is probably what counters any otherwise attained but unsealed position, allowing a bounce-back, if that makes any sense.

Joel

 
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
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Lee Welbanks

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2017, 03:55:05 AM »
Joel,
I have a idea that there is some pressure on the extend side also, as my slide would come out a little when the coach is level, one way to find out would be to retract the side and then relieve the extend solenoid and see what happens. I don't think I will make s special trip under the coach to find out. Pressure has to be what moves the slide as I think it is too heavy to just go out by itself.

Jim Edwards

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2017, 02:42:13 PM »
Hi In my HWH system (as may be in yours) there also a check valve in the system that can fail allowing the slides to move. I will get intermittent creep if the slide is NOT 100% extended and then retracted. Occasionally it is necessary to run the Pump a few seconds longer to seat the check valves / solenoids which eliminates the creeping issues.  HWH has some good documents on their web site to trouble shoot your system. I have attached the trouble shooting guide for MY system for trouble shooting creping slides.
The relevant page for is 8.
 Best
Jim Edwards
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Tommy Gibson

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2017, 02:14:13 AM »
I got her out of the shop AGAIN last Thursday. They had replaced another solenoid a week earlier and it looked as though it was fixed. She spent the weekend in her nice insulated Beaver Den and today after work I went to check on her and the slide was out again. 4-5 inches. This has become a nightmare. Even the shop tech with 20 years experience is having trouble with this one. All fittings were checked and rechecked, solenoids changed again and shes headed back for the forth time. Is my tech at fault here? Should it be this hard to fix or find this seemingly simple problem? Should I find another shop?
Thanks for your help guys. tg

2007 Beaver Contessa (Betty Lou)
2007 Contessa 42' Bayshore IV Cat C9 400 HP (Betty Lou)

Jim Edwards

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2017, 12:38:57 PM »
Hi I would give the manufacturer of the slide a call and get their input and perhaps the name of a another shop. In my opinion no these are not that hard to diagnose and repair.  You might want to give your guy another try but I would ask what he is going to do next that would be different than what he has already done and who is going to pay for it. Clearly his attempts so far have not been successful and by your posts he seems to be replacing the same parts. Rocket science this is not. 
From the manual on page 8 ( previous post) it can only be the following; It also provides diagnosis for each. 
A. An extend solenoid valve is leaking.
B. A room extension cylinder has an internal leak.
C. The manifold check valve is leaking.
Again I would get the manual that is specific for your model but I don't believe they could be that different.

Best Jim
Jim Edwards
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2007 Country Coach Affinity 45 ft Cummins 600
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Lee Welbanks

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Re: Front curb side living room slide creeps out 4-6"
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 11:00:34 PM »
I would almost bet it is the retract solenoid for that slide that is leaking.