Another Battery Issue

[Bill Dean]

As I posted in January, we just bought a 2001 Patriot Tic 37. I put it into storage on the 23 of January & went over to work on a few items as well as run both the Cat 330 & genset a couple of weeks later. Well, I just came back from the covered storage (over an hour away) having found the chassis batteries stone cold dead & the house batteries so low that the step wouldn't extend & the lights that I switched on were very dim - all this in just over three weeks.
I had left the rig with all systems off including the ProSine & battery disconnect switch. The battery compartment doesn't have a separate "marine" type rotary disconnect & there's nothing in the adjacent compartments - just the switch just inside the coach stair well along with house lights & awning.
I attached jumper cables to the chassis batteries & eventually was able to get the genset to start. I turned on the ProSine & "charger" button (all green & working). With the Jeep still attached & the genset charging, after a half hour I was able to get lights, buzzers, etc when I went to preheat the Cat but only got one reluctant turn of the engine & then dead again. I had to leave to meet a client & will journey back on Thursday.
The house batteries - Trojan flooded golf cart batteries are new.
The chassis batteries tested fine up at BCS where we bought the rig in January. They're labeled "Caterpillar"  & are sealed - I don't know their age.
So, do I have some higher than normal phantom battery drainage even with the battery disconnect switch?
Can I get the engine started?  Is there something I'm missing here or should do differently?
Do I just chill out & run the genset for more than the hour in order to charge the batteries AND does the ProSine in charging mode charge both chassis & house batteries or is it just the Jeep jumper cables that are slowly bring back up the chassis batteries?
Lots of questions here & I'm feeling somewhat clueless.

[Karl Welhart]

It does not sound like you have an abnormal drain on your batteries.  However, the coach batteries should hold a charge longer than 3 weeks if you have disconnected them completely from any drain.  The chassis batteries are a little different.  They will drain very quickly without some disconnecting device.  

You should start the generator and fully charge the coach batteries. The ProSine does need to be in charge mode during the time you are running the generator. The will take several hours to complete.  

If you have a "echo" type charger installed and is working properly, the chassis batteries will be charged during the "float" mode of the ProSine. This will only work when the chassis batteries are fully charged and in good condition.  It sounds like your chassis batteries may be dead.  Those style batteries do not like to be fully discharged..  

Hope this is helpful.

[Edward Buker]

Bill,

I would go down and charge the batteries using the genset. Bring a meter and see if the chassis batteries are seeing the same 13.8V or so as the house batteries is seeing from the Inverter/Charger. If not run a battery jumper cable from the + house 12V to + chassis 12V battery post while you are charging. If you are not pugged into 120v for a week or more I would pull the + lead off of the House and Chassis batteries that lead to the coach wiring. I would either tape the metal part or tie wrap them off so they cannot wander back to a connection point while you are away. Label them if there will be any confusion.  It is OK to leave all the batteries in parallel or series parallel configuration and just disconnect the main lead from the battery bank to the coach. When you go back just tighten them back down and the coach should start. This will tell you if your chassis batteries are good or not, if you can go back in a few weeks and they start the coach then they are good.

Later Ed

[Bill Dean]

I'll be bringing both jumper cables & portable battery charger back with me Thursday. Then, Friday, I am taking the RV while DW drives the Jeep about an hour to Northern Sky RV in Ukiah to install Roadmaster & M&G braking onto our Jeep GC. If the chassis batteries are not holding a charge when we get up there or I find that they're simply too old, I may have them install new batteries. This still doesn't answer why there was such a quick drain of all batteries - much sleuthing to do.

[Gerald Farris]

Bill,
If you are storing the coach under cover (no solar panel charging) without shore power the chassis batteries will be totally dead in less than a week if you do not disconnect them. The ECM (engine control module) has a constant current draw that discharges the chassis batteries in a short period if the batteries are not being charged or disconnected.

The house batteries are a different story. They should stay charged for an extended period of time if there was nothing on. You need to take an amp meter and check the current draw at the house batteries to determine what is discharging them. Possibly A light somewhere, or if the refrigerator is running on propane, it uses 12 volts for the controls.

Gerald  

[Bill Dean]

Gerald,  thanks for the input. One question, in my using the jumper cables to the chassis batteries, this gave me the ability to start the genset. However, I didn't get the impression that the genset was charging the chassis as well as the house batteries. If so, can I then take the jumper cables off the Jeep and jump them from the house to chassis while the genset continues to do its thing thusly charging both at the same time?
Thanks!

[Edward Buker]

Bill,

I'll lend a hand here.... The genset has a really small alternator at the end of a long run of wire so it does little charging and is most likely connected to the chassis battery bank. The main charging from the genset to the chassis batteries actually comes from the inverter/charger now getting a 120V input from the genset. If you have a Big Boy system, that should be providing coupling between the banks (house and chassis) as the house set comes up in charge. If you have an echo charger or no coupling device then you would want to use a set of jumpers just from the main house 12V plus post that has the lead that goes to the main coach wiring, to the + post of either of the chassis 12V batteries that are in parallel. The Echo charger will only provide about 10-15 amps of current and is good for maintaining the chassis battery charge but not for bringing them up from a low charge state. You can confirm charging of the chassis batteries with a DC volt meter.

later Ed

[Bill Dean]

Ed,  thanks for the input. I do not believe that there are any modification to the coach such as an Echo charger or a more robust Big Boy system from everything that I can see. I'll go ahead and use the jumper cable and monitor the chassis batteries with a volt meter.
Thanks!

[Gerald Farris]

Bill,
Your 2001 Patriot was originally equipped with an Echo Charger. Connecting the positive terminal on the chassis batteries to the positive terminal on the house batteries while the inverter is charging the house batteries is a good idea. However, do not leave them connected after recharging the batteries, because if one battery bank is discharged through use, both battery banks will be discharged. Also, be careful not to let the chassis batteries be discharged because completely discharging the chassis batteries will damage them, and completely discharging them 3 or 4 times will usually make them unusable.

Gerald    

[Bill Dean]

Thanks for everyone's answers & support!
This is what I ended up doing:
  1.  Hooked up jumper cables from Jeep to chassis batteries.
  2.  Started genset.  It came up immediately with the jeep's assistance.
  3.  Turned on internal charging system.
  4.  Took two toothpicks and wedged them next to battery boost in order to keep it on for the next two hours.
  5.  Started up engine & released battery boost.
  6.  Took a 10 mile drive up Hwy 101 next to vineyards & then back to storage.

Taking rig to Northern Sky RV tomorrow for prior mentioned setup for towing, but will also have them add battery post bar disconnects at the same time.

Again, thanks!

[Dennis Crawford]

Bill,
Install either an echo charger or a similar device from Magnum.  Either device will keep chassis batteries charged as long as the house batteries are at the proper level.  In my opinion the Magnum device is more robust that the echo charger.  I do agree with everyone regarding the discharge of the chassis batteries.  I have a 2005 Monterey and I have a 1.9 amp draw all the time.  There are  some things other that the ECM and transmission computer that helps with this draw.  Things like the radio, CD player, CB and Satellite radio.

Dennis

[neil omalley]

Bill: not totally sure but I believe the boost switch is a momentary contact switch and not designed for the constant load you achieved with the toothpicks. Anyone?

[Edward Buker]

Neil,

I think most of the ones that were installed were continuous duty but wired with a momentary switch. If you get the model off of the side the rating can be looked up. On my 2002 Marquis it was a continuous duty solenoid switch made by White Rodgers and noted as such on the label.

Later Ed

[neil omalley]

ED: thanks. Just didn't want Bill to burn out something . I,of course, thought it was a momentary for  boost only.

[Roy Warren Co-Admin]

It is momentary switch only, but if you lose your chassis batteries when driving, you can engage that switch and hold it engaged, start your generator to keep your coach batteries charged and continue for a couple of hundred miles.  I had to do this once when my alternator quit working and I was in the middle of the desert.  Got me to my destination and I was able to find a new alternator and replace the old one.  Also was able to recharge my chassis batteries while waiting for the alternator and kept them another 4 years.  I was lucky I had heard this trick previously and was not stranded in the desert.
Roy