Headlight Replacement

[Gerald Farris]

You can wire two relays (one for low beam and one for high beam) into the headlight system in the left front electrical bay without running new wiring to the headlights or battery. There is very adequate wiring to the 12V positive buss in the bay and the wiring to the headlights is adequate. So you just use the factory wiring from the headlight switch as a trigger for the relay and the 12V buss as the power source that the relay will supply to the headlights when it receives the trigger current from the switch. It would probably be a good idea to use an automatic resetting circuit breaker or at least a fuse in the new power wire.

At least that is the way to repair the SMC built Beavers, I have not worked on a Monaco built Beaver for this problem yet.

Gerald

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

Jay Todd did the Daniel Stern conversion to his 2002 Thunder. Day and night difference big time!!!  Marty

[Joel Ashley]

Found it!  Problem is, while the boss is on vacation for the next month the website is of little use.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html

-Joel

Sorry Jeremy.  I must have been reading this thread the day after getting no sleep for 36 hours.  Totally missed that you'd already given essentially that same link in a prior post  :B.

Thanks, Keith, for the cached site info.

-Groggy Joel

[Jeremy Parrett]

Hi Joel,
  no worries mate !!  I was going to replace the headlight wiring as well as installing the relays. Thanks to Gerald I dont need to do that now.
 I have 3 concerns 1) what relays would be sufficient for this curcuit.
                           2) Will the driving lights benefit from a relay in the circuit.
                           3) After 11 years of driving without relays should I replace the headlight switch  .

[Gerald Farris]

Jeremy,
Any good 30 to 40 amp 12V automotive relay will be sufficient. I use 4 or 5 pin (usually called Bosch style) relays that can be purchased on the net for less than $5 each (in quantities for less than $2) with the connector harness included.

Since the driving lights do not go through as much circuitry as the headlights do, they will not benefit from relays near as much as the headlights will. So I would not go through the trouble of wiring relays into the driving lights. However I only use the driving lights as daytime driving lights and do not depend on them as a light source to drive by.

As for replacing the headlight switch, if it is not giving you any trouble now, I would not replace it because it will be carrying a lot less current after you install the relays and therefore it will have a lot longer life expectancy.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Jeramy, Gerald,

Activation of any of the "wipers on function" for the Smart Wheel activates the headlights and they cannot be turned off unless you turn on and then turn off the headlight switch or you turn off the ignition. That would say to me that there is a relay circuit involved here already with the Smartwheel. I'm not sure if the headlight switch is actually providing the current for the headlights or is just a trigger for the Smart Wheel circuits.

From the improved intensity results that folks have gotten with the added relays I'm sure something is not quite right. Anyone figuired out how the Smart Wheel is involved here and if a heavier wire supply to the Smart Wheel or a relay that they use might be involved?

If the headlight switch is supplying current, it is clear that Smart Wheel wiper activation is an additional current supply given the headlights will work with the headlight switch off. Has anyone tried turning the headlights on at night and then activating the wipers for a cycle to see if the added current source increases the brightness without adding relays and extra wiring and may just be good enough?

Later Ed

[Jay and Raylene Todd]

Ed et al,

Using the relays and connectors supplied by Daniel Stern will eliminate any voltage loss in the headlight circuit - both high and low beam. The voltage loss can be caused by many things depending on the setup in your particular coach. In my case, the wires from the DC bus to the headlights was just 22ga, far too small to carry the load. In addition, there was some extra resistance in the switch circuit which just made the problem worse. In my initial testing, I was getting just barely over 5 volts at the lamps giving me about 15% of the lumens normally obtained with 12 volts.

The relays are designed to be triggered by the wiring already being used by your headlights and a substantially reduced voltage - as in my case - is still more than enough to trigger the relays. Both the headlight switch and any trigger relay that might be coming from a system in the smartwheel (icc headlight flasher or windshield wiper trigger) will be upstream of the lamps and so will still trigger the voltage relay for the lamps.

The ideal with this system is to have an uninterrupted wire run from the batteries to the relays and use 10 ga wire. That wire run can be made direct from the DC bus in the electrical bay as Gerald said but I would personally do a battery to bus test to see if there is any voltage loss between battery and bus before I used that as my source. In my case, I made the wire run direct from the batteries.

The relays themselves can be obtained from any auto parts store at a very reasonable price as Gerald said however there is a but ...

You should be running that 10 ga wire not only to the relays, but from the relay output to the lamp itself. The female jack that plugs into the back of the lamp is not large enough to accept a wire of that size and very few auto part stores will have a replacement that takes larger wires. That is the beauty of the Daniel Stern kit. He supplies not only the relays and a mount block, but he also supplies the appropriate new jack for the rear of the lamps that accepts 10ga wire. In addition, his kit has a male receiver that will plug into your existing jack for the headlights that runs directly to the relay trigger. You aren't cutting any wires on your coach or anything else. You are just adding the heavier wires for the relays and between the relays and the new jack for the headlights. Then just unplug your current headlight jack, plug it into the relay trigger plug and then plug the new jack into the headlights. Instant light!!!

Any other relays that may have been placed in the circuit to trigger your headlights on will still function as they are all upstream of the lamp plug that is now being used to trigger your new voltage relays.

[Edward Buker]

Jay,

Thanks for the info. No doubt using a relay and bi-passing all the current coach wiring will solve the problem.

 I was trying to see how the existing harness worked and where the problem is.  It turns out that the headlight switch (if wired per the Smart Wheel Schematic) carries almost no current. That is a trigger for the Smart Wheel control circuit.  Within the Smart Wheel Controller, there are two 25 amp relays that are fed from a connector plug that has a 12V source feed, and then a connector with a wire feed out to the headlamps.  I'm not sure if most of the voltage drop is in the wire feed for the Smart Wheel Controller, the internal relay circuit, or the wiring out to the lights, or all of the above.  It may be that a separate relay circuit is the only way to overcome all this, if the voltage drop is distributed over a lot of wiring and sources. It could also be that a lot of the voltage drop may be able to be alleviated with a simpler change.  I'm on the road so I'm not sure I will get to this until I get home, but it looks like a good problem to check out and see what the options are.

I have not found where the Smart Wheel unit is mounted, to try and sort this out.  I always thought it was down in the electrical bay under the driver seat, but with a quick check it was not to be found there...Maybe Gerald has scouted this unit out before?  My guess is maybe the side console?

Later Ed

[Les Marzec]

Since Daniel is off for a while, does anyone have an idea what his kit costs.  I tried the web-page, but the products section just says that he will be gone for a while.  Also, does anyone know how the Stern kit compares to what Beaver Coach Sales does on their mods.  Thread says the it solved the problem of lack of headlight power.

My Smart wheel controller is in the electrical bay on the right wall near the bottom.

I am scheduled to have Beaver do it Monday, but just want to make sure I am doing the right thing, and what is best.

Thanks

[Gerald Farris]

Ed,
Your Smart Wheel control module should be under the electrical control panel to the left of the driver's seat.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Thanks Gerald, I will check that panel out. It is one places in my coach that I have not explored yet.

 I'm leaving the Olympic Peninsula in the morning and will travel through Oregon to Napa CA to visit a relative so we will be busy on the road for a few days...may get to look at this in Napa if I get bored and have not consumed too much wine.

Les, I am sure that Beaver Coach Sales will have the ability to solve this and will probably wire in a couple of relays like what has been discussed. They do good work there, but as always I would ask what they plan on doing, and then inspect the work when they are done. Unless you live there, it is usually a long way to travel if you have to go back for some reason. This is a very solvable problem with relays and heavier gauge wiring. It may be good to ask them what the voltage is at the chassis battery bank, also the voltage at the low beam socket wire with the lights on before the modification and after to see what you have gained. There will always be some voltage drop so do not expect to see the battery voltage at the socket but it should be clear that the fix made a substantial improvement.

I'm going to try and sort out where the voltage drops are taking place and see if a simpler wiring change might alleviate most of this problem...maybe a 50/50 chance. I'll post what I learn when I get to it.

Later Ed

[Les Marzec]

Ed

Thanks for your input.  I will do as you suggested.  I am staying overnight so I will be able to see the difference as well as have them provide the voltage differences.

Thanks

[Jay and Raylene Todd]

Les,

I paid $59.00 for the kit from Stern. I had to purchase my own wire and I also put the wire inside flexable wire conduit. Total cost for me was about $150.00 and it took me about 4 hours to install.

[Les Marzec]

Thanks for info.  

Beaver told me about $200, but I don't think that they change out the wiring.

[Joel Ashley]

Good question to ask Loren, Patty, or other service advisor first thing tomorrow morning (about the wiring changeout), Les.  But I know BCS wouldn't do anything unsafe or ill-advised.

Sounds to me like the $50 difference 'tween BCS and Jay's fix is a bargain to save 4 hours of your labor, and to get it done tomorrow and off your mind.

-Joel